The $4.5 Billion Disconnect Between What We Believe and Do About Orphans

Ninety percent of US Christians agree children thrive best in families. So why do so many of us still send money to orphanages and residential care? The latest Barna study puts real numbers on a problem we can’t hand-wave anymore: 28% of Christians report supporting orphanages or children’s homes, totaling an estimated $4.5 billion a year. That’s not a villain story. It’s a discipleship, storytelling, and “what do I do now?” story.

We talk with Julie Walton, Head of Research and Learning at the Martin James Foundation, about what the Barna research (commissioned by Faith to Action) reveals beneath the surface. We dig into misconceptions about why children are placed in institutions, why the word “orphanage” carries emotional and spiritual weight, and why child sponsorship can feel so personal while still missing the bigger goal of family-based care. We also explore the real gap between belief and behavior, including the “feasibility gap” that keeps donors defaulting to familiar giving channels.

The conversation gets practical and honest about the role of churches, mission trips, and proximity. Orphanage trips have shaped people’s faith, but child safeguarding and dignity demand that we rethink how we create meaningful engagement without harming children. We also discuss the surprising finding that younger generations are giving more to residential care and how to invite their passion toward family strengthening, family preservation, and community-based child welfare.

If you’re ready to move from good intentions to better impact, listen now, then subscribe, share the episode, and leave a rating and review so more people can join the shift toward families.

And for Laura: makin' bacon pancakes with auntie the bird: 

________

Travel on International Mission, meet local leadership and work alongside them. Exchange knowledge, learn from one another and be open to personal transformation. Step into a 25 year long story of change for children in some of the poorest regions on Earth.

https://www.helpingchildrenworldwide.org/mission-trips.html

******

____

Organize a Rooted in Reality mission experience for your service club, church group, worship team, young adult or adult study. No travel required. Step into the shoes of people in extreme poverty in Sierra Leone, West Africa, Helping Children Worldwide takes you into a world where families are facing impossible choices every day.

Contact support@helpingchildrenworldwide.org to discuss how.

___________

Family Empowerment Advocates support the work of family empowerment experts at the Child Reintegration Centre, Sierra Leone.  Your small monthly donation,  prayers, attention & caring is essential. You  advocate for their work to help families bring themselves out of poverty, changing the course of children's lives and lifting up communities. join

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome to Optimistic Voices, a podcast of helping children worldwide. We help children worldwide by strengthening and empowering families and communities. This podcast is for people interested in deep conversations with thought leaders in the fields of child welfare, global health, and international missions.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Welcome to the Optimistic Voices Podcast. I'm your host, Laura Horvath. And in this episode, I'll be talking to Julie Walton about a research study from the Barna group that was just released that looks at where we are with U.S. Christian support for the orphanage model of care. But first, a little background. For years, many Christians and churches in the United States have said they believe children belong in families and not in institutions like orphanages. And yet, new research from Barna, commissioned by Faith to Action and supported by the Martin James Foundation, shows a deeper tension that we can no longer ignore. The study found that while 90% of U.S. Christians agree that children thrive best in families, 28% still report financially supporting orphanages, children's homes, or other forms of residential care. And that represents an estimated$4.5 billion in annual giving. So even as awareness grows about the importance of family-based care for children, donor habits, church engagement, and long-standing assumptions about helping have not fully caught up to that family care message. And that's what makes this conversation so important. This is not just about statistics or changing opinions. It is about the gap between what we say we believe and what our money ministries and mission practices continue to support. It's about why orphanages still hold such emotional and spiritual power in the Christian imagination, even when we know children do better in families. And it's about what needs to happen next if churches, donors, and Christian leaders want to align compassion with evidence and good intentions with what is actually best for children. Today's conversation with Julie Walton will help us sit with that tension and ask what faithful informed actions should look like now. So a little bit of background on Julie. She's worked for over 15 years advocating for vulnerable young people and families. She holds an MA and social enterprise from American University focused on international policy for orphaned and vulnerable children, and presently serves as the head of research and learning at the Martin James Foundation. Before joining Martin James, she provided strategic leadership and communication support to a grassroots child protection organization impacting children in Thailand, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Mexico, and the Philippines. Julie also co-authored the Reimagine Orphan Care Advocacy Series. Within her present role, she provides support to MJF's 15-plus international partners spread in over 10 countries throughout the world, specifically in their monitoring and evaluation, impact assessments, and program design. She lives in Austin, Texas, where you'll often find her walking her golden golden doodle, leading worship or playing with toddlers at her church, or opening her home to friends and neighbors alike. And Julie is also a good friend. So welcome to Optimistic Voices, Julie.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

I'm delighted to be here. I just wish we were recording in person. That would be even more fun.

SPEAKER_04 3:50

Yeah, I do too. I do too. But you know, Zoom is maybe the next best thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Yes, yes, yes.

What The Barna Study Measures

SPEAKER_04 3:58

That's what we have. Anyway. So, Julie, can you give our audience just a brief overview of what this study is, what it's trying to look at, and the history behind it? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

So this is a study that Faith to Action commissioned really to bookend an earlier study that was conducted in 2020, released in 2021. And that survey, so I'll speak first to that first one, which we, the Martin James Foundation was not a part of that initial one, but that looked to quantify and understand US Christians' perceptions, their giving patterns, their behaviors towards orphaned and vulnerable children. And for the first time, to my knowledge, it gave us a figure. We all of us in this space wanted to know what's the number? How much do we think US Christians are giving to orphanages throughout the world? And at the time, the market estimate was$2.5 billion. And a market estimate is best understood as a complicated figure that looks at a representative sample. So in that case, it's about 3,000 Christians. So if that percentage occupies this percentage of the number of Christians in the US, this many of the sample size give. And there's some other complicated math, candidly, that I don't understand all of it. But in both statistics, the previous one and the new one, I find it helpful to know that those are likely the most conservative figure we could have landed on. So we would feel confident saying two and a half billion from the previous study, though we would recognize that is likely low. It also quantified for us some of the perceptions. It revealed where there was misunderstanding around why children are placed in orphanages. And that study conducted by Faith to Action with Barna Group back in 2020, released in 2021, then released a communications collaborative effort that brought in dozens of organizations. I know your organization, where I previously worked, and then Martin James were all a part of this. Okay, now we know this is a baseline of sorts. This is the group of people we're trying to target and we know where they're at. How can we invite them in to what we've learned? And then when we looked at this most recent study in 2025, and Martin James was involved in the research design, got to be part of those meetings with Barna, which I, the data nerd and your friend Julie was a happy little camper. But we looked at then measuring has any progress happened? So over those five years, is there any shifting in understanding? Is there any shifting in not giving? And so that research was conducted in the fall of 2025, and then we just released it. So and then we're gonna get to talk about some of the findings. But it was 3,351, I believe is the number. I've probably spent more time than I should in this data. So I have too many numbers in my head, but 3,351 self-identified Christians in the U.S. We did some level of denominational narrowing. So these would be Orthodox, hold to a traditional understanding of Christian view. They there's some variance in denomination, how often they go to church, how committed, but there are people who would raise their hand and say, Yes, I'm a Christian. And then we surveyed them from there. Some things to measure, change, and then some new findings to see how they are approaching this. So I hope that's a helpful framework. You can add anything.

Why Focus On US Christians

SPEAKER_04 7:21

That's very helpful. Um, I'm gonna throw a little um a little extra question in there. And that is um, just for people in the audience who may not understand why, what's your opinion about why look at Christians specifically to understand this?

SPEAKER_02 7:37

I would say the reason we're looking at US Christians is we know that that represents one of the largest giving blocks. And so they are important to understand because they're one of the primary groups of financial infrastructure upholding the orphanage model and the system. In some countries where we would be looking at governments, we need you to reduce your reliance upon institutional care. I think that can be a bit of a tough sell. So if they've presently outsourced quite a bit of their alternative care to privately funded orphanages, we're now asking them to take responsibility in an economic and a financial way for children that are presently being paid for by predominantly US Christians. And so we need to understand why, why, how, what's the mechanisms for those givings, because to a certain extent that's funding that is flowing. I wanna, I'm hesitating because I want to say this the right way. It is flowing towards the right children presently being served in what we would say is not our best model. So it on the one hand, if you're trying to do something, you need to understand people who are trying to do the opposite or the different thing. But as I think it'll become clear even as we talk, I don't view these donors as adversaries. They're not working against us. They are finding a model that you and I have both had deep experience with, and we know we can do better. And so I'm curious about them. I think faith to action is deeply motivated. Barna, which just we want to understand, like, let's lift the hood a little bit. Something's rattling in here. Can we figure out why? And can we maybe invite those friends into what I feel like I just learned a couple of years ago? Like, can we come with me as we're learning? Because we care about the same kid. And so come with come with us as we're learning. Yeah, yeah.

Misbeliefs About Why Kids Enter Care

SPEAKER_04 9:36

That's great. So let's dig in. So when you look at this new Barna study, what are the two or three findings you think listeners most need to pay attention to first and why?

Sponsorship And The Pull Of One Child

SPEAKER_02 9:48

What struck me the most, Laura, about the study, because kind of the two or three things that stood out to me the most that I think, and I think what stood out to me first was why children are placed in orphanages. I really resonated with the underlying sadness and even disconnect we see in several of the stats side by side. So we do see an increase. 72% of respondents understand now that poverty is one of the most significant reasons why children are placed in orphanages. So that's up quite a bit. Yet 23% believe they are placed there because their parents can't afford to care for them. So there's a disconnect there. And so I see a group of people in that statistic that care really deeply and just haven't yet seen a tangible solution beyond an orphanage or don't have the imagination to picture a solution that supports the child with their family. We also saw really high percentages of respondents who still believe that abuse, neglect, and unsafe conditions are the reasons for placement. So that's 39%, or the death of parents, 35%. And again, we're not saying, just to be clear when we're talking about numbers, we're not saying 39% of children are placed into an orphanage because of abuse, neglect, or unsafe conditions. That is an inaccurate, that would be an inaccurate way to read the data. We're saying that the respondents, 39% of them believed that was one of the reasons that that was yeah. And then death of parents. So all of those tell me that we just haven't yet cracked the sense that who lives in orphanages are orphans, which there's something embedded even in the name. I maybe this is silly, but I think it's a little bit like burgers living at Burger King. It's like, of course, yes, orphans live at orphanages. So I think it's hard to get our mind around that. So I think that just tells me we still have work to do in explaining and paying attention to what their hangups are. Because that's the biggest thing that I needed when I was still an orphanage advocate, is I needed somebody to listen to all of my, well, what about, what about, what about, because there were real children behind that for me. Right. Right. Well, the second one that was interesting to me is the child sponsorship being a primary giving mechanism. That was really curious to me. Honestly, that's one of the pieces of data that surprised me. We say that 48% of giving is coming through child sponsorship. And I honestly have a a lot of conflicting emotion as I think of child sponsorship. On the one hand, it troubles me, just pictures of children. I don't know that most of us would feel comfortable if it was your niece or your nephew or your son or your daughter having a picture in a gallery that someone then is choosing, passed out at a concert. Like there's something about that that I kind of can't, maybe we just know too much working in child protection that the thought of someone's face at Martin James, we don't use identifiable pictures of children's faces at any of our communications anymore. And so there's that side of it. Then on the other side, I deeply, deeply resonate with having such a deep emotional connection to one child. So even recently I was with Ellie from Faith to Action and a group of leaders, we were trying to kind of metabolize some of this data. And at the beginning of the time, she pulled a chair up to the front and she said, I want each of you to picture a child that really is meaningful to you, someone that you've met at an orphanage, someone in some some someone in this space. And I want you to picture them sitting here and that they're in the center of all of our conversations. And I immediately, I mean, I cry easily anyways, but I'm immediately in tears because I have dozens of names that go through my brain and my heart, and that they are what drives my work. And so I can understand someone who knows I support this little boy every month. I send him letters, he writes me back, that there's a deep emotional connection. So I feel conflicted and I feel challenged to think about how we might reimagine that. And then I suppose the final thing that I think we need to pay attention to, particularly as people in the sector, is the emotional connection and deep conviction that these donors approach this with. And I felt both surprised and not surprised. I was surprised at how clear it comes out in the research. But then I don't really have to look very far to understand that. Um I personally have raised over$100,000 to go on mission trips with teenagers to visit orphanages in other countries. And I thought I was doing something good. And that same heart, it's the same Julie. She knows a little bit more than she did, hopefully is slightly wiser, more kind, I hope all of those things. But it's the same tenacity that did that, that's doing my work now. It's it's just I've learned some things. So I think how do we tell people that are so deeply connected to their giving that there might be a better way? And yeah, that's tough. That's painful. You've written about that, you've done such a beautiful job. Um, but I also think when you love someone, part of loving someone is learning how to love them well. Yes. Well, and admitting that you don't know everything that there is and being willing to adjust. Um, maybe this is a silly example that comes to mind. I was at a women's retreat for my church recently, and one of the leaders of that also is in a small group discussion with me. And I have a really severe tree nut allergy. So there you go. Your learners can learn something else about me besides my golden doodle, who might make noise at some point during the podcast. She's presently at my feet. Um so as they were planning this women's retreat, my friend took it upon herself to make the entire weekend nut free. They had planned like a special trail mix, and I live in Austin, so people eat nuts all the time because they're it's like a very earthy, healthy, holistic kind of a place. But they changed the welcome snack. They passed everything by me. They ensured that the kitchen was nut free. So I didn't have to worry the entire weekend. Like I've never felt so cared for. Yeah. And I'm assuming that that was inconvenient, it might have been more expensive. It was a lot of hassle for one person, but it meant an enormous deal to me. And that's just because she had learned something about me and was willing to adjust. And it kind of didn't matter how expensive it was. And I wasn't just told it wasn't a one-size-fits-all. Well, just everybody's getting trail mix and just avoid. No, it's if we're giving trail mix to someone else that's in Julie's cabin, then she has to worry about telling them to please wash their hands before they touch. I mean, they just took care of it. And maybe that's a silly analogy, Laura. But I just think I'd love to invite these donors who feel so deeply. Like, I believe you, I believe you love those kids.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Can I share with you what we've learned about them? And let's adjust. Let's adjust then correspondingly.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Yeah, I completely agree. And I know you know this because you've been reading, um, you've been reading me lately. Um I I have been like really thinking about how um for Christians, especially, because it's such an expression of our faith. I mean, we we're told James tells us that the purest expression of worship is to care for the widow and the orphan, i.e., the most vulnerable in the community, right? Um, and so I think we take that to heart. And so it becomes, it's not just about I'm a kind person or I'm a generous person or I'm a compassionate person, but this is now an expression of my faith. And it's also now become part of who I am. It's a it's my identity. And so I think when we start talking about, you know, maybe this orphanage solution, which sounded like the best solution because hey, the name is right, it's right there, orphan, orphanage, you know, done, done and tested. Um, maybe that's not the right solution or the best solution that starts to get at what are you saying about me and the things that I've done to do it. It's it's really, really complicated. And I think it's really important.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

And that's where I think, isn't it? Um Brene Brown's done such beautiful work on shame and guilt, even just even guilt is I have done something wrong. Shame is I am something wrong. Yes. And I do, I think that is where I would love to invite those who share our faith. It's one of our core beliefs that we are not nailing it. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

We're all sinners and it's all about redemption.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Right. This is this is not debatable that we mess up, that we think that we think that a man has a way in his heart that he thinks is right. And in the end, I mean, some scriptures are dramatic. In the end, it leads to death. I mean, so it's like I am fully capable of ridiculous foolishness, just off the choice. And foolishness is even a kind work. I am capable of awful, awful. And so, and and I am deeply and endlessly loved. That's right, what didn't Tim Keller say about that I am worse than I would dare to imagine, and I am more loved than I would dare hope. And so there's a safety in the love of God to examine our mistakes and to to be willing to learn and to say, I could be wrong. Yeah. There was this is I wasn't planning on sharing this, but I don't mind. There was a season in my life where the Lord was one of many, let's be candid, where the Lord was addressing some pride in my life. And I felt really convicted to whenever I disagreed or I thought I really knew what somebody else was doing to say after whatever I offered. I could be wrong, it happens a lot. And the first several times it was like clenching, it's just like such an immature pitch. Like, I could be wrong, it happens a lot. It was like, but then as I get that became more habit, it became such a liberation. I could be wrong, it happens a lot. And now you'll probably hear me, I might say it on the podcast, and now you'll know where it comes, but it became a conviction liberating. I could be wrong, it happens a lot, and so help me. And then let's learn, let's change our minds. I mean it's like courage and humility.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

Yeah, it's about courage and humility. I remember years ago, a similar story. Um before I went to travel to the orphanage for the first time, and I really wanted to go, and I was really scared to go, and I was pretty convinced that I was like the absolute wrong person for this task. Like, I'm I'm a Hilton girl. I don't like enjoy roughing it. Well, I do now, but I didn't then. And my girlfriend said to me, Girl, you need to open your Bible because he God chooses all the wrong people. Like every every one is the wrong person. You would not have picked them, you would not have cast them in that role. And I thought to myself, it felt so liberating. I thought to myself, well, I could be the wrong person that I can do. Um and then, you know, started on this journey supporting an orphanage, and then wound up, you know, here he takes you on a ride, doesn't he? All right, back to Barna, back to Barna. One of the most striking tensions in this report is that 90% of US Christians say children thrive best in families. Children need to be in families, but 28% still report supporting orphanages or residential care. What what is the gap between what people believe and what they think? Yeah.

Beliefs Versus Giving Habits

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Well, I would say A, I don't know for certain, but I have some guesses as to what that gap is. I think there's at least two things that are underneath that. I think one could be more simple to untangle, and then the other requires even more of that humility that we were just talking about. So I'll start with the easy one. I think it's a feasibility gap. We, the broader big C church, continue to operate with an understanding that there's this 150 million orphans. In the world. I still see that. There's still organizations that tout that number. And so that is a mind-blowing number. Um, and I still run into people who have this fundamental underlying belief that there are 150 million children just loose in the world. Like they're just Lord help us. It's shocking that they're not filling my backyard right now. It's just like they're just they're out there. We know. So just for any listeners that are not familiar, we know that that number includes the children of single parents. So I want the listener to think of anyone in their life who has a single parent. Would you consider his or her children orphans? I would say likely not. We wouldn't think of those as they're loose, they're just out in the neighborhood, nobody's paying attention. That's not, we don't hear we don't think of children of single parents that way, but they are included in that statistic. Big number. Yeah. So I think one thing is we just we know most of those children are already today, right now, they're not just loose, that 150 million that captures children of single parents, children of grandparents, yeah, but they're living with grandparents, aunts, uncles, close family friends. They're absorbed into communities already, beautifully, candidly. I might articulate that in the global south in particular, they are absorbed into families much more seamlessly than they are in our context. It's just very, of course, this child, when his dad died, he just became a part of our family and he's like a son to me. It's much, it's just it's much more natural. So I think that one thing that's happening is that when we're picturing orphans, it's this giant, massive, huge, somewhat unsolvable mess. And because Christians care for children, which I'm really grateful that we do, it's like an all hands on deck. So it's a sense of like we need orphanages to deal, it's like the only scalable solution to deal with this massive millions of children just on the loose with no one to care for them. And for whatever reason, we have a place in our imagination for an orphanage. There that makes sense to us, particularly when we think of the global south. But for whatever reason, then we get a little bit nervous when we start talking about supporting entire families. And that one I think is harder to untangle. So I think that's the second thing underneath. I found a lot of people who are keen to support children in orphanages are hesitant when it comes to their parents and families. And again, I'm a bit ashamed to admit this to you, Laura, but I'll be honest about my own trip to the first orphanage. And I'm calling it an orphanage to use the common vernacular, but I would now know it's a children's home. Almost none of those children were true orphans. They had families. But I heard so many stories, and I just remember how easily I believed the most egregious stories about these children's families, just hook, line, and sinker. And I remember coming home and repeating one of the stories just with enormous gusto, of course. Just, and one of my dear friends, who's a social worker, so is obviously the smartest person in the room. Um, she starts questioning a couple of the details. And I realize how quickly the story unravels. Like it's just not a feasible, but it was a memory that I had. This is this kid, this is what he walked through. But it wasn't, it's and it was, but it just relied upon him having terrible, terrible parents, just terrible. So, what is it about that that we like? Why do we like being the hero first on one who has terrible and I recognize there are terrible parents out there, but Laura, I have not met very many mothers who aren't trying. I have not met very many families in poverty that are they are brilliant and scrappy beyond belief. Like they are pulling together. You look at even economic studies, when you invest into women's empowerment, you give a single woman, a mom, a small pot of money, she can feed a hundred kids before you've even thought about where the grocery store is. I mean, there's just an astonishing just beauty and strength, particularly amongst the very poor, that I don't, I don't understand the suspicion. And I don't know if that's our pride, if that's our own sense of control. I think that there might be some of that. And I can view that in my own life too. I want to take more credit for my own stability because that makes me feel more confident rather than realizing how precarious my life is. Every time I get in a car, we have such an illusion of control, but I'm at the mercy of every Yahoo on the road. But I think that's so, I think we we have to confront some of that suspicion around poor families that they somehow can't be trusted with the same. We've decided the orphanage is a trustworthy custodian of four and a half billion dollars. And we've decided families are not. And I'm not sure why. I'm not sure what we need to do in our storytelling to actually moms and dads are an incredibly trustworthy custodian of these resources, communities, leaders. We don't need the orphanage to house so much of it.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

So right, right. No, I think that's really good. And that kind of circles back to um an issue I have with child sponsorship models. And I could go, I I could do several podcasts on child sponsorship models. But one of the one of the things that I that gives me sort of an ick is that it puts the donor in a kind of hero posture. They're the rescuer, they're the hero of the story, they're the ones that are kind of stepping in and providing for a child when the family can't, or you know, or whatever. And what we try to do at HCW is try to help educate donors to this idea of what if you weren't the one with the cape? What if you instead helped put the cape on a on a father so that he could be a hero in his own child's life? Because if you think about, you know, if you have kids, if you, you know, if you were a kid with parents that you loved or whatever, I mean, parents are your heroes, you know? That's something every child wants to feel. That's something every parent wants to feel. Um, what if that was the story? But what that requires of us is that we step out of that hero role and and step into something that's much more on the sidelines, in the audience, cheering someone else, you know, all of that. That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Which again shouldn't strike us as being antithetical to the faith that we hold. Yeah. That's right. It's not at my name. I'm a very minor character. I was honestly meditating on that the other day, just how small I am, but how I'm beloved of God. Again, I don't need to be known by anybody else. I'm already known and cherished. Yeah. I think there's an invitation to let go some of that hero. And I think it's actually more powerful to be loved than to be the hero.

SPEAKER_04 29:11

Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. And I just think I don't know, it's a much more interesting story when you're part of that bigger story than if you're just running on main character energy all the time. So we talk about people with their main character energy.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

You're so hip. Look at you. Main character energy.

How Behavior Change Actually Happens

SPEAKER_04 29:30

I love it. I have I have uh young adult, I have three young adult children who um feed me some lingo from time to time. Nice. I like it. I like it. Good news. So this study is showing that understanding has improved since 2020, especially around poverty, as you said, being the main driver of family separation. But the behavior hasn't really kind of tracked along with that. So, what does that tell you about how change actually happens?

SPEAKER_02 32:28

So, this is something I have thought about a lot because I this was probably the thing that was the most discouraging to me. And one of my colleagues reminded me this is how all change happens. And so we're not seeing an anomaly. It's not as if all other change in the world, particularly when we're talking about changing a cultural piece of understanding. I did you ever read Malcolm Gladwell's book, The Tipping Point, on how and I just I like I love that book. I just love like how do we how do we come up and over where something is so ubiquitous in culture and then decades later no one would ever think of it being normal. And so I do think what we see in the data is an accurate picture of how change happens. In that sense, I don't think we should be discouraged. We're not seeing an entirely different phenomenon here. We're measuring at the midway point of behavior change. So we're seeing we're, and so I think if we were to do this again in five years, which I hope we do, we'll then begin to see more behavior change. But we're just this is how behavior change happens. Um, so I think maybe just another thing to bear in mind, particularly for anyone who has been in this space for a while where it does not feel um good to be patient. And I will never lecture anyone on being patient because that is that is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that your friend Julie has to pray for often. Except I don't really like to pray for it often because then it almost always means a new irritating person in my life. So you got to pray that one carefully. But I think one thing to bear in mind. So when I think of my own life and how I can be resistant to change, maybe this again is silly, but I follow this fitness gal on Instagram, and she is just such like a straight shooter, and she talks about women my age and how we fall for the stupidest things. We'll buy a new protein powder, one of those vibration plates, anything. But then when she tells us to pick up a set of dumbbells and lift weights three times a week, where I'll say, I don't know if we have time and it's too expensive. So we I was laughing at it, and then I was like, shoot, I have a new protein powder. I brought, I bought a circulation plate. Like, I'm totally that's me where I want. So I what does that have to do with the study? I think that we're oversimplifiers by nature, and we want things to be different without having to change. We just want things to be different. I just want things to be different. I want to feel better. I don't want to be as worried about aging, I don't want to be tired, I don't, but I don't want to do the work required to change. And so I think um, particularly when faced with a large problem, our brains are committed doggedly to reducing it to a solvable size. That's like that's wired in there. And anxiety, I've heard anxiety described as a brain, our brains being confronted with a problem and it can't measure how much energy it's gonna have to expend to solve it. That was so helpful for me. So if I think of this set of donors, 150 million orphans, I mean, that can still that can send me to tears overnight. It's just like it's just that's so so quick, but it's unbelievable. It's too much. I can't possibly, and I just want to shut in a corner, but I can find a hundred bucks in my monthly budget and send it to who I think is a reputable orphanage because my church brought that orphan orphanage director. They went a friend of mine went on a mission trip and then they invited me to their house to eat nachos and hear about the children in Mexico that need my help or what you know. So there's that's feasible. I also think it tells us that we've not made it an easy on-ramp into what we are trying to do. And I, whereas it's very easy to donate to an orphanage, go to an orphanage, there's you can Google, please don't do this, but you can Google orphanage mission trips and you could be on one this summer with your family. Don't do that. Don't do that. That's what we're saying. Don't do that, but that's easier to do. Whereas right now, if a listener was like, Great, I'm totally bought in, I want to take my family and go and serve with vulnerable families, you and I both would go, Well, like, how do we do how do we do that? And so, which I know we're gonna talk about mission trip stuff later. So I think we've got to think of how to bridge that feasibility gap. And I'll give you another just silly example because I think it's just helpful to remember that this is not a group of people over there that are stubborn. These are people just like me. And so I read a book a couple of years ago about giving you all my silly things about mouth breathing. Have you read anything about this? How you're the more you breathe with your mouth, it's not good for your face, for your teeth. There's all sorts of things. So I read this book, was 100% the science behind it, made sense. Check, check, check. And then I promptly did nothing about it because all of the solutions were like a very expensive mouth guard, mouth tape that was like$2 a night. I'm like, I cannot commit to spending$2 a night on for the rest of my life. So I knew I knew the way I was falling asleep every night was harmful to my overall health, all of the different things, but I did nothing about it until it was maybe like it was sometime this last summer, and a different influencer that I follow, maybe I'm spending too much time on Instagram, um, had a new tape and it worked out to like 20 cents a night. And I bought it that night and I've been mouth taping since. And spoiler alert, I'm sleeping better. It really does. I wake up, my mouth doesn't taste like trash. And so, but so all that to say, I can remember, I would have been exactly where this Barna study is.

unknown 38:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Mouthing is bad for you. You should be breathing through your nose. Are you actually doing anything about it? Nope. Yeah, false. Absolutely. I did nothing. There would have been nothing in my behavior that would have been able to measure that my mind had changed. Nothing, not a single clue. But as soon as there was a feasible way to implement what I had learned, I did it. And so I just wonder how many of these donors are bought in, but they need, oh, all I need to do is this done.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Yes. No, I think that's exactly it. So we have our rising tides intern, Grace, um, this year is completely brilliant. Um I have four amazing interns this semester. It's like teaching a college class together. I'm having so much fun. But Grace has this thing that she taught us where she's like, okay, so so you have to break it into three pieces. There's the what, there's the so what, and then there's the now what. So it's it's almost like the original Barna kind of gave us the what. This this is the here's the big picture problem. And a little and over the course of between the two studies, you know, Pinkston and uh working with faith to action and all of us have been sort of filling in that gap. And so now people are starting to understand the so what, why this matters to me, why do I care about this? But the piece we're still waiting for is the now what. It's the what, okay, so what do I do now? And also to your point, to your um example, is the now what something that is that feels doable to me?

unknown 39:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

I mean, because you you can say to people, support family, you know, it didn't shift your support to family support programs or family preservation or family strengthening programs. And people go, how do I do that? Like what what does that look like? And I think that's that's a missing piece.

unknown 40:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Maybe we need to come up with branded mouth tape that has like a QR code. Support families. Yeah. Yeah. It's why I'm in charge of marketing for no one.

SPEAKER_04 40:23

Um I was gonna say, there's your million dollar idea. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Bye, Julie Waltons. But I think that's an important is that we need to be cautious with criticizing this group of donors as being stubborn when it's possible that we haven't adequately described the now what yet. Yeah, I think it's I think that's possible. I think it's and I'm sure that there's at least two that are stubborn and I think I've met I think I have met both of them as well. And so then how do we but then how do we make it much easier? How do we build confidence in the families that we know? These families are they're trustworthy custodians. And if we're gonna go a step further from a faith perspective, God gave them those kids on purpose. And so, yeah, but I think it there might be, I think that's a more generous interpretation of the data, which is what I'm reaching for. And again, I've been on a journey with this data, but I think it's more generous to go, I bet this isn't we haven't made a convincing now what case rather than I just can't think of a group of people that would be this generous that it's not that they hate children and are committed to a bad way of supporting. No, that's how it's happening. They're doing the best they know to do. Yeah, yeah. Have we made it feasible? So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

All right. So what what in the report surprised you? What was there anything in the report that made you stop and think, we need to pay a lot closer attention to this thing?

The Shock Of $4.5 Billion

SPEAKER_02 41:55

I was when the number, so I think we've shared that. So we I think we've said so the initial figure was two and a half billion dollars spent annually by US Christians. And again, that's based on the percentage of the respondents who give and what their average monthly gift is, and then that's mathematically calculated with a whole bunch of other factors that Barna can explain better than I can to get to the two and a half billion. So the new number for 2025 is four and a half billion, and that my jaw hit the floor. I just was not expecting I just wasn't expecting that much, and I think the magnitude, it honestly made me think. I'm a bit of a numbers, so it made me think of our some of our partners. We have one partner that you just would not believe what they've done with 7,000 pounds, you know. Sorry, I work for a British foundation, so about$8,500. Just the extent of that like is astonishing. Or I think of another one. We just I was just talking with a colleague today, and one of our partners is working in communities where several kids, there's a pretty significant government push in their country to return children from orphanages back to their villages, but not always with corresponding support. So our partner is going and visiting these villages, and they just asked if there could be a little more wiggle room in their budget with us. Like, these aren't kids that are directly a part of our project, but can we just pay our social workers to stay a little bit longer so that they can serve those kids too? Because those kids have not fully had good reintegration support, which of course the answer from us is you're the experts, please do what you need to do. But that level of tiny amounts of money given towards family care are just astonishingly effective. And so it was initially discouraging to me. I think when I look at our partners and then I look at all of the beautiful work that's been such a joy of being at um at MJF, is just having a wider view on the beautiful work happening in the world and just what we could do with four and a half billion dollars, just was, I think that genuinely, I just I knew it probably would increase, but I didn't expect it to almost double. I mean, that is that's just a lot of money. It's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

It is a lot of money. And there is a part of me that just goes, when I saw that number, I it was like a gut punch. Um but there's a part of my brain that goes, can you imagine if that got pivoted you know, toward family strengthening, toward family? I mean, that the the difference that would make in so many places. Um that just that blows my mind. Um so yeah, it it's a both a a discouraging and an encouraging um piece of data.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

So in that sense, I think is encouraging. If you look, I was just reading a study about giving in the UK and in the same time period 2020 to 2025, which are the it gets a little bit confusing because the data was collected in 20 and 20 and 2025, then released in 2021 and 2026. So if I'm using the term, but that same period of time, giving was down seven percentage points per this one study in the UK. So giving has declined in a lot of areas, obviously bilateral aid, foreign aid. So I think in that sense, I'm encouraged that people who care about vulnerable children are giving more than they were five years ago. And then again, I'm just trying to picture them as having read the book and just we've not shown them which mouth tape to buy yet. And so it's we've as soon as we can solve that and we can make it more in their reach. I believe, I believe they're gonna come with us, Laura. And maybe that is incredibly naive and optimistic, but I having met so many of these friends, they care about kids just as passionately as I do. And so I believe I mean the numbers don't lie.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

I mean, people are putting you dollars uh into how much they care about vulnerable kids. And I think I think you can't help but feel some sense of encouragement. And I'm also encouraged about the fact that you know, this these two studies kind of taking place five years apart and sort of demonstrating. Demonstrating how change how this is just how change happens, and then it tracks with how all change happens. I find that encouraging too because what that says is we're making progress. Yeah. We just got to keep moving forward. So what didn't surprise you?

SPEAKER_02 46:37

The depth of emotion behind the giving. Um, I just was really like to see it that quantified. So I'm just I and I on the one hand, I wasn't necessarily surprised because I've literally never met a casual orphanage supporter.

unknown 46:53

Like never.

Churches Mission Trips And Safeguarding

SPEAKER_02 46:53

There's always a deep, and I was not a casual, it wasn't like an anecdotal part of what I did, even though it was two weeks out of my entire year, yeah, were the ones spent with an orphanage every year for the four years that I led trips, but it was not a minor part of my life when I in that season, right? When I was raising my identity, wasn't it? Absolutely, absolutely. And we can we can chase that trail if you'd like, but the amount of like what that meant to me as a woman who does not have my own children, but I think how clearly Barna was able to capture that, that it's that one pie chart. If you total up, it's like 81%, it's about 30 something is it's the most important thing I support. It's slightly more important or more important. So it's more important than almost anything else I give to that set of donors. And that I just think is I just to see it like in real, like in black and white, what I feel like I've encountered. I think too, then I had wondered if it was more of like an intellectual, if it was an intellectual objection, and to see that it's much more of an emotional one. I think both surprised and didn't surprise. And then I think then the the church piece of it, how strong the church tie is, was really wasn't again, it I feel like I'm answering both ways. It wasn't surprising to me that that is present, but it was surprising to me how strongly quantifiable. So if you look, um, 37% of the support is donors giving to a church's partnership with an orphanage, that's significant. And 40% of the introductions to the orphanage came through their church. And so, I mean, that's a strong, that's a strong tie. And I think even again, that same group of leaders that we were gathered with the chair representing the child. I just hadn't I think it's again, I knew this, but you just realize how central orphanage trips are to so much spiritual development. Yeah. I feel really challenged by that. I feel really challenged. It feels like one of those things that you're taught in your job, right? You should never bring a problem to your boss that you don't have an idea on how to solve it. And so that feels like one of those things that I can see it's a problem, but I don't have an idea on how to solve it yet. How do we and on the other side of it, it's both a problem to untangle. And then the fiercest advocates that I know now working in family-based care, all of us have deep histories with orphanages. Like all of us come to this work, they're all pretty much the same. Yeah, they're all pretty much the same, you know. And so then it's a little bit, it's like, I want you to get to where I'm at. That sounds so just come with it. I want you to care the to the depth of where I care without having experienced what I experienced, and that doesn't feel kind.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

I do think that one way that churches like get their congregations engaged and then and get them engaged around mission and get it get them engaged around service and the kinds of things that frankly for a Christian that are about spiritual development of if I'm the pastor of my congregation. Like I'm trying to, you know, help these people grow spiritually in the air in these key areas. An orphanage mission, an orphanage trip that or an orphanage that's connected to your church is is a way to concretely engage the humans in your church. And so how you unpack that and and disentangle it and um and change that because it has implications, not just for the work that's happening over there, but for the people in the building that I'm currently the pastor of or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Um I mean, that was that was me, Laura, the first trip that I took. I didn't really cared about the kids that we were gonna go and visit, but I cared a lot about the four girls I was bringing with me. Yes, who were girls I was mentoring, and I wanted them to have I wanted them to see a different side of the Lord, to have an experience that wasn't within a very tidy American credit card solvable. I wanted them to see God's power in that. That's the world lives, yeah. They were my primary beneficiaries, and it feels awful to say it this way, but the orphanage and the orphans who lived there were side characters in that story. Yes, yeah, and that like that makes me want to like barf a little bit. Sorry, I don't know if we didn't pre-approve the word barf, but it's um it I think we have to reckon with that, and I think then us people in the sector have to go, okay, we're proposing removing a discipleship model. I think we have to. I think we have to say there ought to be because the kids that were with me are fine, they are stable, they have secure attachments, they've never gone hungry a day in their life unless they just didn't plan properly. And so I ought not to need to inflict harm on more vulnerable children in order to teach those children a good lesson. Like that's yeah, bad math. And it was enormously formative for me. It was enormously formative for them. There are things that are true in their lives today that were not true on the other side of that trip. And so, how do we I think there's some interesting models that are coming? And then I just haven't, I have not, I don't know how to reconcile that because proximity is such a powerful, and we see proximity mirrored in the data. Again, people who've gone on mission trips, there's a proximity that creates the bond that creates this funding stream. And so, how do we create proximity towards the positive side of what we're proposing without causing harm? And I don't, I don't know the answer to that yet, or ever. But I'm puzzling on that. I mean, all of us are, right? Like it's how do we solve that part of it?

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Yeah. And I do think that there are spaces where you have to say, um we are we're gonna try to replace that with something, right? Um, if we can, but then there are gonna be some spaces where we say, we're not gonna you're not gonna have proximity because it's a child safeguarding issue. And and so that's just that's just not available in that way anymore. And it's that's a hard space to be in as well.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Um it is, and then I don't know what your home, my my home church here in Austin, um, you don't get past a locked door unless you're so this Sunday when I'm playing with toddlers on Sunday, I will be in a bright red shirt. Yeah, and it has my church's logo, it has and only parents and people in the red shirts are allowed past a certain area at my church. Only fully approved female volunteers, adults in the red shirts are allowed to change diapers. There's all so I think we do have to, yes, we're taking something away, but it's honoring the same systems that we instinctively have in place for our children. Exactly. Exactly. And that's a really hard. And again, I don't think I've never met anyone who really truly believes these children over there are worth less than our children. I think it's there's some deception around the level of scramble and chaos and enormity of crazy that poverty and it's that just doesn't correspond to most impoverished villages. There is, there's stuff that's going on, there's things that need to be addressed, and come with me and we'll to whatever extent we can. And you'll see beautiful families that are caring for one another. You'll see grandmothers that are resilient and who are caring for their grandchildren. You'll, I don't think you'll leave those communities thinking, oh my gosh, I think you'll leave thinking, oh my goodness, look at the beauty. That's at least how I have felt every time. But again, even as I'm saying all this to you, I feel guilty because I have the ability to be proximate in a child-safeguarding way to these communities that we're talking about because of my job and because of what I get to do. So, how do we invite the average Christian churchgoer in the US into, and I don't know the answer to that. I I would say though, that there are also the same kids that I'm passionate about elsewhere. There's really similar kids that live in my neighborhood here that I have the opportunity to love and care for. And then that reveals some other things that I think we probably need to deal with in discipleship because it's a lot easier to suck it up and be in another country for two weeks and then come back to the comfort of my home where I expect most things to be in my control. And the kids on the street here are an inconvenience to me on a daily basis in a way that kids across an ocean and a plane right away don't inconvenience me nearly as much as what it takes to actually love my neighbors. And so I think that therein as well, we see that our reluctance to change some of these models has a deeper discipleship root that and I don't have to, I don't have an opportunity for a second to be condescending about that because I'm just as selfish. I'm just as committed to my own convenience and comfort and control. And so I don't have to imagine why someone would struggle with that so much because I do. I get struck and irritated. And so I think that's where all of us then I wonder if part of the solution is we're this isn't actually meeting the need in the way that we think it is. And so it's not necessarily the like silver bullet of a solution that it appears to be. It actually might be further entrenching our people into prejudice, further entrenching our people into compartmentalized. And what if there's a better way? And serving in our own neighborhood is not just subparts better because it's actually better for our people to serve their neighbors than it is to serve all the way across. I don't know. I'm workshopping there.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

I know it's a whole lot easier to love your neighbor if you only have to do it for two weeks in another place, and then you can get on a plane and come home. Yes, yes, Laura.

Why Younger Donors Give More

SPEAKER_02 59:12

How can we campaign for that? I mean, that's that's I just I'm sure I could love my neighbors for two weeks. Yeah, but the ones that are always here that don't park their car where I would like them to, that play their guitar in the afternoon with their windows open, that requires something for me in a different way. But I actually think I'm become more like Jesus by loving that neighbor than I do by only loving somebody for two weeks. Anyone can do anything for two weeks, for two weeks, but to actually be formed into someone who does not need the world to revolve around me, that requires that's a 365-day a year project that thankfully the Holy Spirit is on the job in your friend Julie's life. Look at that work in progress, work that's hard.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:07

All right, in the interest of time, I'm gonna um jump up jump down to a couple questions and ask. Um, so I I've heard a lot in the sector, a lot of colleagues talking about um the study kind of pointing to younger generations, um, specifically as a major part of current residential care giving. So, like young people are now giving more, two orphanages. Um, how should that how do you think we that should shape our messaging, our education, our next step invitations? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

Oh man, I didn't see that coming. Did you? That was giving to me. I thought we would see, I think if they had given me a pie chart, I would have drawn it the exact opposite way. Yes. And then we'll see, but then it made so much sense to me the minute because who are the young people that I took with me on the first trip? Like I so I did four trips, and the first three were with teenagers and young women that I mentored, and then the last one is one that I called real adults. Please don't be offended, the teenagers that came with me. You know, you weren't real adults yet when we went on those trips. And so the four fourth one was with more established people my age from my church. And it was easier for the teenagers to go on the trip. They're just naturally more flexible. And I think the world is a lot more accessible to young people today than it was even 20 years ago. So my dad was a pilot. So I remember as a kid, I was, I flew a lot as a kid just because my dad was a pilot. But I remember being one of the only kids in my class that had been on an airplane. And that is not true today. Almost every, I mean, in in most middle class, upper class families in the United States, people have been on airplanes a lot. So I think we need to, that too is a challenge because we need to. So sorry if you can hear her grumbling. Um we need her for the video. She's she's a part of the podcast. She's one of our optimistic voices today. Welcome. But I think we need to not be cynical about a young person's desire to and belief that they can change the world. And so how do we invite them into that? That is, I think it's God given. I think there's just stuff that happens in your 20s that, yeah, you're gonna, it's we're gonna zeal without wisdom a lot of that, and we're gonna learn, but let's not quench that. So I think I hear that. And as a sector, I think let's approach this with some tenderness and some curiosity and be careful that we don't quench it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

Yeah.

Practical Next Steps Without Cynicism

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Like I feel a little bit like walking into a room and there's a lion bear, and you're like, okay, back out of the room cautiously. Just don't. And not because I'm afraid of this younger generation, but how do we invite them into a compelling picture of what we're talking about? I think that's one piece of the findings. How do we then honor where is there any portion of that that comes from a younger generation has experienced more family breakdown, like the statistics on some of that? So is this a group of people that rely more on their chosen family, their, you know, you hear that language, their tribe, your people than they do on their actual family? We see estrangement rates increasing. So is this a group of people that are they're bought in on family, but they're suspicious, maybe, and hurt. There's some hurt behind that. Yeah. So how do we invite them? But I think my Jew, this is just Julie. I'll speak on behalf of myself. I think we have to be cautious that we don't treat that with a cynicism and quench it. I think it would be worse for the sector to quench that than for it to take a little while for it to shift. I think it would be better for it to take a little while to shift than for those donors to just go, oh, I was doing it wrong and opt out and decide. Because I think it's remarkable that they're giving. I wasn't giving that exponentially when I was that age. And so I knew enough to tithe, but I wasn't giving sacrificially yet. I wasn't learning how to on purpose do with less so that I give that took me a while to learn, and I'm still not great at it. So, can we honor that they're out giving people that are older to them? That's I think that's 50%.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

And I I love what you said about like, let's approach this with um tenderness and curiosity. I think that's exactly the the stance to have. I think that's really beautiful. So all right. So for listeners who are feeling um a little challenged by some of the findings in the report, but they also don't want to become stuck or cynical. What are some practical next steps um to help align their compassion and theology with what children really need?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:54

I have this one might be silly, and I am an encourager by nature. So I I most fear this won't sound practical. But think of someone that you know who's doing really good family-based care. And will you call in this week and ask them how you can, if you're a person of faith, which I guess maybe a portion of your listeners are and aren't, but just ask them what they're encouraged by in their work. Ask them how you can pray for them. Is there anything that is feeling particularly hard in your work this week? And enter into that, like earth this report a little bit for you. Because it's easy to feel like, oh my goodness. And none of it's working, and we're just continuing to build orphanages all over the world. Well, no, that is okay. We have this is a piece of giving. And there are people, we know them, Laura, in every country in the world that are doing beautiful family-based care, that are today meeting with moms and dads and are holding pieces together. I just was on the phone earlier, not the phone, the Zoom, the Zoom. I was on the Zoom earlier today with one of our partners and asking them, we're doing an end-of-project impact report. So, what is it that you would want others to understand? And they just spoke of the beauty of their communities. And this is one of those countries that is a hotbed for orphanages because it's easily accessible by tourism. And they were just over and over and over again, the communities know, the communities know what is going on. They have structures, they have systems. And so I leave those calls feeling like we're on our way. So if you're just looking at these giant headlines, you're gonna be discouraged. So pick up the phone, schedule a WhatsApp call, schedule a Zoom. I honestly think that is one of the most practical things you can do. And get on the phone with someone in another country who's doing this work beautifully well and encourage them. Go a step further. What's a need that you have right now? And try and rally your small group around that need. Don't let's not worry about the four and a half billion right now. Is there something in your programming right now? And if you need a list of people, email the whatever behind optimistic voices. I could right now give you 20 organizations easily and just call them and ask them what's a need that you have right now and try it. Do a yard sale. Get your teenager to mow the lawn in your neighborhood and try and meet that need. Just find something that you can do with your own hands that's pushing this forward. And I think what's gonna happen is you're gonna love that so much that then you're gonna call them back in a month because it's gonna be the best part of your week is hearing a story. Tell me a story about a mom that you're serving, right? Stop it. She's not suffering, listeners. She is not suffering.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:39

She just wants to talk, she just wants to have her talking time.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

She wants what she does not have.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:43

There's coming soon on Optimistic Voices.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:46

Moments with dogs. Yes, moments with dogs. Um, but I apologize for the grumbling. So I think do something with your own hands, with your own people, and refuse to be cynical about this group of people.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:02

Just I think that's beautiful. And I'm gonna say, we're gonna put in the show notes, like you can um reach out to optimistic voices. And if you if you need somebody to call and just hear something that's going on great in the world, Julie and I are gonna work and put together a list of organizations. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that note, I'm gonna take that challenge and put make my own list and start reaching out to folks uh tomorrow and just encouraging them.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

I think it's double dog dare your listeners to overwhelm us. I would be delighted if we had whatever. I will brainstorm till the cows come home. I have plenty of people that you can call and encourage this week that are doing this today. So we we have every reason to be full of hope. There are really beautiful leaders working on this right now, and it would be wonderful for us to get behind them in a more substantial way. Let's do it.

What Keeps Hope Alive

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

Absolutely. And if there's anything to kind of take away from this from this conversation about the Barna study, yes, we can look at the big scary numbers and we can, you know, we can be concerned about this challenge and that challenge and whatever. But the fact is, big numbers like this tell us that people people care. Yes, and they care so much they're willing to put money behind it and time behind it, and they're willing to do that sacrificial sacrificially. The fact that younger people care that much, that's potentially generations of you know, years of caring about this. And so I think um, yes, there's a lot of work ahead, but there's still reason to hope. So on that note, I'm gonna ask you our last question. We always ask every guest this, and that is what keeps you optimistic or hopeful about your work in this in this space?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

So I'm gonna give you a real answer and a silly one. Um you're not ready for it, but it's gonna change your life. But I'm gonna make you kind of cliffhanger for that for a minute. Honestly, it's I mean, I'm a little bit being a broken wheel. But it is meeting leaders in Uganda and India and Tanzania and Nepal and Thailand. And we like just our and our partners are representative of just beautiful people all over the world that are doing this work. But it's not unfeasible at all when I think of all of them. I'm like one of them working on this is a force to be reckoned with. And then you just start thinking of the names of the people that we know that are working on this that are right now brainstorming in Kenya, Uganda, Ghana, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Zambia, South Africa. It's just like we can take this hill. Look at who we have with us. Like who we have with us. Like this, just some of the best and the brightest people I know that could get crazy multiple figure jobs doing anything else are working on this. And I'm like, well, I'll go anywhere with all of y'all. Like that is just we can do this. You are leading the charge. So what keeps me optimistic are the leaders in these local communities who are solving it.

unknown 1:11:12

Yeah.

Final Thoughts And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:11:12

With astonishingly less resources than it seems like it they should need. And they just multiply it and figure it out. And there's always a spark in their eye. They're really honest about what didn't work, and then they're adjusting and they're figuring it out. They're brilliant. So that is the serious thing that keeps me optimistic. And then when I need a break and I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed, I watch YouTube videos of a little blue bird named Augustine who likes to sing to a bacon pancakes song. She does little tippy taps across her owner's shoulder. And it's this making pancakes, making bacon pancakes. And the little bird does this. And I could I just watch it for 10 minutes and I feel better about myself. And then I go back to my work. So the please Google the bacon pancakes bird. You'll know it's the right one when it's this little blue. Her name is Augustine. She also goes by Auggie. You can watch her take a bath. It's PG. There's nothing inappropriate about watching a bird take a bath. She just in the sink, flapping around. And then she does bacon pancakes while she's drying off and it makes me feel better about my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:21

That is absolutely the best response I think I've ever gotten to that question on optimistic voices. And Melody, if you're listening to this, please put a link in the show notes. Yes. To this. Because you know, we all need a little dancing bluebird video in our life. We do.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:41

When she's riding to the vet, she's in her little carrier and she's going back and forth across the bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon. I mean, it'll solve. You'll just you'll feel better about your life like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:53

I'm gonna do it as soon as we're done here. So all I have to do now is just we're at the show. And that is to say, thank you for being on the show, Julie. Thanks for all of the silly stories, which were not actually very silly at all, but were pretty profound, actually. Um, and I want to thank the audience for joining us on this episode uh of Optimistic Voices. You know, we always say it's a big, messy world out there and there is no shortage of need, but we here at Optimistic Voices believe that with radical courage and radical collaboration, together we can change the world. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share it with others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from us, you can find us at Helping Children Worldwide on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.