Optimistic Voices
Vital voices in the fields of global health, global child welfare reform and family separation, and those intent on conducting ethical missions in low resource communities and developing nations. Join our hosts as they engage in conversations with diverse guests from across the globe, sharing optimistic views, experiences, and suggestions for better and best practices as they discuss these difficult topics.
Optimistic Voices
Party in the Back: Your Superhero Cape Belongs to Someone Else
The difference between helping and hurting often comes down to one critical question: are we empowering and dignifying people or creating dependencies and disabilities? In this eye-opening conversation with Sheree Reece, Global Missions Director for a UMC Mega Church - Church of the Resurrection, Laura and Yaz unpack the profound shift happening in mission work worldwide—moving from traditional charity models that often foster dependence to sustainable approaches that build genuine capacity and dignity.
Drawing from her 14 years of experience coordinating global missions across Africa, Asia, and Haiti, Sheree reveals why simply showing up with resources and doing things for communities ultimately creates more harm than good. She shares powerful examples of transformation, including how one Haitian community went from passively waiting for outside help after the 2010 earthquake to confidently leading their own recovery efforts when Hurricane Matthew struck in 2016.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is the practical wisdom Sheree offers. She explains how organizations can make this difficult transition, emphasizing the patience required with both donors and partners. The importance of building trust before sending resources, identifying true community leaders rather than just the loudest voices, and creating "50-50 covenants" where both parties contribute their unique assets all feature prominently in her approach.
Most compelling is Sheree's reminder that Jesus himself modeled empowerment—not by dictating solutions but by engaging people in their own transformation, preserving their dignity, and recognizing their God-given abilities. Whether you're involved in mission work, charitable giving, or simply want to make a more meanin
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Travel on International Mission, meet local leadership and work alongside them. Exchange knowledge, learn from one another and be open to personal transformation. Step into a 25 year long story of change for children in some of the poorest regions on Earth.
https://www.helpingchildrenworldwide.org/mission-trips.html
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A bible study for groups and individuals, One Twenty-Seven: The Widow and the Orphan by Dr Andrea Siegel explores the themes of the first chapter of James, and in particular, 1:27. In James, we learn of our duty to the vulnerable in the historical context of the author. Order here or digital download
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Family Empowerment Advocates support the work of family empowerment experts at the Child Reintegration Centre, Sierra Leone. Your small monthly donation, prayers, attention & caring is essential. You advocate for their work to help families bring themselves out of poverty, changing the course of children's lives and lifting up communities. join
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Organize a Rooted in Reality mission experience for your service club, church group, worship team, young adult or adult study. No travel required. Step into the shoes of people in extreme poverty in Sierra Leone, West Africa, Helping Children Worldwide takes you into a world where families are facing impossible choices every day.
Contact support@helpingchildrenworldwide.org to discuss how.
Shout out to our newest sponsor: The Resilience Institute
Helpingchildrenworldwide.org
Welcome to the Optimistic Voices podcast. I'm your host, Yasmin Vaughn, and I'm Laura Horvath. In today's episode, we're going to be talking with Cherie Reese, who is the Global Missions Director for Church for the Resurrection, located in Leawood, Kansas. In her role at Church of the Resurrection, Cherie oversees the church's missions in Africa, Asia and Haiti.
Speaker 2:Cherie's also a good friend of ours, so we're delighted to have her on the show, and in this episode we're going to be exploring a powerful shift in the way mission work is being approached, moving from charity-based rescue or relief models to ones that are rooted in empowerment. But what does it mean to truly empower others through mission, and how do we move beyond short-term relief to long-term sustainable change? And why is it so important to offer a hand up and not a hand out? Whether you're a mission trip veteran, a church leader or someone rethinking how to make your giving more impactful, this conversation is going to challenge you to see mission not as something we do for others, but something we do with others, in partnership, with mutual respect. When we were brainstorming organizations, we thought were doing this well. Cherie and Resurrection immediately came to mind. Cherie, welcome to the show, thanks. It's so good to be here with you guys. It's great to have you. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, your role and the work that you do at Resurrection?
Speaker 3:So I have been working in our missions department for about 14 years globally, and I currently work with our partners on the mostly in the Eastern Hemisphere plus Haiti, and we really focus on sustainable development as well as just empowering local leaders. With that said, there are times for relief, so we know when there's a hurricane or a war, things like that, we do engage in that type of thing. I'm married with three adult children and a dog that I absolutely love. He's so much easier than the kids were, so that's always really nice. But nothing gets me more excited besides my family and God, of course than talking about ways to empower people and just finding ways to help them realize their gifts if they don't always realize the incredible gifts that God has given them so that they can use them and make a difference in their own lives, their family and their community, so that totally geeks me out and therefore I absolutely love what I get to do every day.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. That's great when you get excited going to work, yes, most days, most days, yeah, nothing's perfect, all right. So getting right down to it, in what specific situations or emergencies do you believe that relief models are necessary and appropriate?
Speaker 3:So, when a community is hit by either a natural or a man-made disaster and they can't respond solely on their own. So if the community has the assets and resources to respond on their own maybe it's a small disaster we should let them do that. They should be empowered to do that. If they can't because it is so large, that's when other people or organizations should come in alongside them to help them to respond in that disaster.
Speaker 1:And I think maybe it would be good if we also had a definition of what relief is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe define like what's a relief model and then what's a not relief model resources that you're just giving them.
Speaker 3:They have no part in adding to those resources. It's just you that's giving them away and doing for them, whereas non-relief models or development models is when you're doing things together. Most importantly, if you're doing those things together, the people in that community are the ones that are leading. It's like they're in charge. They're the ones who says this is what we're going to do, this is how we're going to do it. We just get to come alongside them. If it's our community, then hopefully we are the ones who are leading. Whatever that is, and if someone else is coming from the outside and combining efforts with us, they're doing it with us as well, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I'm struck by you've emphasized in that answer the importance of the people who have sort of suffered the crisis or in the crisis, actually leading the response, and I just want you to expand on that a little bit and talk about why is that so important. Why, if you know, if I come in with my rescue crew or whatever in the middle of this I don't know tsunami, why would it be important for the people on the ground who's just suffered it to lead?
Speaker 3:Anytime you give people the opportunity to make decisions for their future, it gives them a sense of power.
Speaker 3:If they've just gone through a tsunami and their life has completely been turned over, they've lost a lot of things that are important to them, whether it be something as large as a house or something as small as a picture.
Speaker 3:They can never get back, which actually is probably a bigger loss. You know, they lose a sense of power and they have a sense of helplessness. As soon as you can give that power back or allow people to find their own power that gives them purpose, that gives them hope, that gives them something to drive towards, if we come in and say, hey, we're going to take care of you, we're going to do everything for you and this is what you need, First of all, we're going to contribute in creating even a bigger disaster, because we'll probably bring the wrong things, because we don't actually always know what they need. So that's problematic. And then, when you add to that, their sense of helplessness continues, it's hard for them to have that feeling of hope and change that they can do it and getting some of that semblance it just goes to, I think, power and powerlessness. You know they need to have the power to move forward.
Speaker 2:There's a whole lot of dignity sort of baked into that, and preserving people's dignity and it seems to me, at a crisis point when you feel like you've lost everything or maybe you have lost everything or almost everything still being treated with dignity and being treated as a person with agency is a really critically important thing in that moment. So I think you've hinted a little bit about this, but, from your perspective, what are the inherent limitations of relief models? Because we're not saying a relief model is a bad thing, it just it has a specific purpose. So you know what are the limitations or what are the things that relief models can't solve.
Speaker 3:So long term sustainable development is impossible. If you're operating in a relief mode, if someone other than you or community members are providing more than 50% of the response, then dependency is created, and if it lasts longer than what it takes to recover. So obviously, let's say, a tsunami hits in your example and other agencies need to come in with resources, whether it be food, water, hygiene items, whatever it might be. If that continues, then you will you get used to just being given things. I mean, who wants to work for something when it's going to be given to you?
Speaker 3:Who wants to go and work 40 or 50 hours a week to earn I don't know $500,000 a year or what? We'll just say a bunch of money? Or who would rather just say, hey, I won the lotto and won $500,000. But I mean, even in that example, you look at that, people who win the lottery usually spend that money and lose it within a year or two because they didn't work for it. There's something to be said when something is given to you versus you worked for it, you value it differently, and so relief models don't allow you and it kind of goes back to your dignity piece. It doesn't allow you to value what you've received, you don't treat it with the same dignity, with the same care as you would had you worked for it.
Speaker 2:Well, and it must create a sense of dependency in that people lose sight of the fact that they could do it for themselves and lose the kind of sense of their own capacity and competence.
Speaker 3:And that takes place over years. So, like I wouldn't necessarily I don't think I would necessarily see that within a few weeks or a few months, or even a year perhaps, of you, you know, giving a relief, but if you continue that over 5, 10, 15 years, you lose sight of. Yes, you can do it and you used to be in charge and you used to make a difference in your life or in your community. Your life or in your community because all of a sudden you start questioning your capabilities, because someone's doing it for you.
Speaker 3:And one of the examples that I've liked to given and it's a silly, silly example but like when a child wants to tie their shoe, they're like I'll do it, I do it. If you keep doing it for them, you're going to tie their shoe until they're like high school, because that's just kind of what they're used to and they don't even think they can do it anymore. But high school, because that's just kind of what they're used to and they don't even think they can do it anymore. But as soon as you help them, do it like they're so proud of themselves. I tied my own shoes, okay, this is just a tiny, tiny little silly example with what this does with like people's entire lives. I mean, I think part of poverty is alcoholism depression because they don't realize they have these incredible gifts and skills. They don't even realize they have because someone's been doing something for them for years. They've lost sight of what the inherent capabilities, god-given capabilities that they have, and so they're depressed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think we saw this really play out as we did our orphanage transition almost 10 years ago and we started talking with families. The CRC started talking with families about bringing their children home and the immediate reaction was well, but you'll take care of my child better than I could. And so there had to be a whole lot of almost reeducation of parents that this is your child and, yes, you have the capacity to take care of them. In fact, you've got greater capacity than the orphanage does and so getting people to flip their whole mindset because of the years of dependency that that orphanage relief model had built in. Can you share some examples of other intended problems or dependencies you've seen in relief models in communities that were certainly unintentionally created but have popped up as a result?
Speaker 3:Sure. So a great example that I've just seen played out over the years is actually coming from out of Haiti. We work with a community of local leaders and Pettigrew, which is about two hours west of Port-au-Prince, and what we were told after we've been partnering with them with many years we've been, you know, doing development initiatives and things like that building capacity in the leaders is in 2020, when the earthquake hit, they were like, oh my gosh, what are we going to do? What's going to happen? And they waited for outside organizations to come in and help, whatever that help might look like. They waited for help Fast forward to 2016 when Hurricane Matthew hit.
Speaker 3:Like they heard the hurricane was coming, they were going to the neighbors. They were saying, hey, let's prepare, let's, you know, do this, this and this. As soon as it hit, they were out there checking on people. They were securing belongings, they were helping people who were injured and they said you know what? It was completely very two different responses. They didn't wait for anyone in 2016. Yeah, people came alongside to help at some point, but they were well on their way to recovering. So lives are saved, basically, when they don't wait for someone to come do something to them. They're already recovering long before organizations come in to help, because that mindset change has taken place. They realize they're responsible for the community, they can make a difference, they need to own it, and it was just the fact that they didn't wait for anyone. I'm like, oh my gosh, yay, this is awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh my gosh, yay this is awesome, and I think that really gets back to the point you made earlier. We're talking about right now is like shock, and we're talking about it on a macro level of, you know, a hurricane, a natural disaster, a pandemic, an outbreak, something big, and these shocks can also happen on like a micro level. You know a family member passes away or you lose your job or things like that, but what you're you're the point that you make is the distinction between a time for relief and a time for, maybe, rehab or development is can I withstand this shock? You know a tree looks at a storm and says you know I have the roots required to withstand this, and so being able to say for yourself you know we can handle this situation, or we can handle it up to this point and now we need outside help.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Talking about what it means to build resilience, building these communities of capacity, of recognizing ability, of not having powerlessness. I think there's a lot of organizations that are interested in this and that think that it's important, and they have very good intentions with the work that they're doing. They want people to be sustainable, they want people to do well, but a lot of them really struggle with this concept, with this idea of how to do it well. So, from your experience, what are the components, what are the ingredients that you say you know? To go back to your Haiti example, what are the things that existed in that mindset that created this idea that they could handle it on their own?
Speaker 3:So that is hard. That's like the million dollar question, especially because, in an attempt to do good, the church as a whole, people from around the world who want to help others you know we've talked about this, we've done more harm than good in an effort to help and we were very much stuck in the relief model are like that wave is turning and people are starting to understand, hey, the relief model necessarily isn't the best approach to help vulnerable people in communities. But now you need to talk to the leaders in those vulnerable communities who you've been giving all these resources to and just handing them to, and say, hey, we want you to work for it Now we want you to do something. I mean, it's kind of like Whoa, like why are you turning the tables on us? Like what the heck? You know you've done all this. What did we do wrong? Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:So if you're starting in a new partnership, it's much easier. It's so much easier to start. You know, on a blank page, and you know, first of all, you want to make sure you're partnering with the local leaders in that country, preferably that community. So, for instance, you might partner with a nonprofit that is from that country, which is great. But you also want to partner, like if that nonprofits in the city and you're working in a rural community. Those local leaders in that rural community need to want to partner as well and want to own their development. So there's kind of different levels of partnering that you need to make sure you do and then you need to listen. Like people think we're crazy. In fact, several of our partners have said, oh my gosh, that was the longest interview I've ever had when he talked about, you know, becoming partners, because it literally he's like this took four years. I only recall two or three years, but he says four years. And that's because we spent time listening, just getting to know each other. What are your goals, what are your vision? Like what, what would you want to accomplish if we were to partner together? Like, what would you want to do with that? Like how, why, why do you want to partner with us? What does that look like? You know, trying to understand. Do they have a vision for their community? Do they have goals?
Speaker 3:And then you build a relationship. If you do not build that relationship of trust, they're going to say yes to whatever you suggest. First of all, you don't want to suggest anything the first couple of years, because you just want to listen and support their ideas, and so you have to cultivate that trust. My favorite part is when we get to a position with a relatively new partner where they're like, no, this is not going to work for us. It's like, oh, this is fabulous. They trust our relationship enough to say, hey, this is a bad idea.
Speaker 3:And then learning about each other's assets. So you spend those years as you're listening, you're building that relationship. What are their assets? What are our assets? You know we may be good at some things, but we're definitely good at not good at a lot of things. So what are they good at? What can they contribute to the partnership? Only then, once you've done all this work, only then should you send resources.
Speaker 3:In the US model, or lots of organizations in the US, our initial response is let's send money, let's help, let's get resources into their hands as soon as possible because they need them. But then you've gone to the handout mentality and you haven't built that trust. You don't even know what their goals are, what their vision is for their community, and so once you go down that path, it is really, really hard to go back. And so if you are already on that path with a partner, that's when you need to sit down and start having heart to heart conversations and saying, saying, hey, you know, we've been sending I don't know, we'll just say five thousand dollars a year to help you field feed children, which is great and phenomenal, and the children need to be fed, but nothing has changed for those families. Like we've gone through years and years and years of these families needing their children fed.
Speaker 3:What would it look like if the families could feed their own children? Just the dignity, the power that that gives them. What could we do that might give them that capacity so that they can own their own destiny and they're not waiting for us to come Because at some point something may happen to us. What if we can no longer send that funding? And how wrong is that? We feel good about ourselves. Hey, we fed these kids. Look at us. That's awesome. But yet these families can't feed their own kids. And think about what that would feel like if you couldn't feed your own kid.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, so it sounds like a lot of what you're talking about um is creating good power dynamics through listening and building relationships. Well, um, before building that trust, before you jump in to do things, um, are there other aspects of of creating these power dynamics that you think are important that other organizations should consider?
Speaker 3:So we actually have a 50-50 covenant that we modeled after it was something that it was Global Ministries that had created something similar and it really talks about the biblicalness of 50-50 and working together and the you know, sharing together each other's assets and resources. And when I say 50-50, it might not be like they're paying 50% of this project and we're paying 50%, but it's 50% of effort towards something. So it could be, you know, they're in charge of the project, they've set the vision and the goals and they're doing a lot of the work and we're offering the 50% of the resources, or maybe we're doing some of it together. I don't know what that looks like, but a lot of that takes place through again goes back to listening and asking questions like that's. That's probably what I spend most of my time doing with our partners is asking them questions, not an aggressive way like why aren't you doing this or why wouldn't you do this, but just say, well, when you do that, you know what happens when you like, what, what happens after you do that project, or or who are you planning to help, or how long is that going to last, or what is your end goal.
Speaker 3:And part of that is just to allow them to think through and process what their plans are. Part of that is, I'm responsible for the funds that are leaving our church and going to the hands of other people, so I need to make sure hey, is there, is there a good chance of this being successful? Because we all know, anytime you're doing anything innovative or new, there are some failure rates. There should be, or we're not doing something as big as we should be trying to do, or different or innovative. So just trying to understand what that looks like on behalf of our church, as well as making sure you know are they leading it? Are they building capacity in the local people? Do they have an exit strategy? And then we follow their lead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that active listening, knowing how to ask questions well so that they're not accusatory but are truly building that relationship and building that trust. Would you say that there are specific metrics you talked a little bit about. You know, our partner said no to me and that meant that I knew that we had a good relationship because they felt like they could say that. Are there other metrics of that close relationship that you look for?
Speaker 3:So some of the other metrics that we look for are if we send people to do something in a country, do they end up doing it with the local community? There have been several times in the past when I was relatively new in the position and we had partnerships that were formed before we learned some of the lessons that we've learned over the position and we had partnerships that were formed before we learned some of the lessons that we've learned over the years, that we've had to end because we didn't spend years building the relationship and the trust and they were very much in the relief mode and our partner couldn't make that crossover or bridge to the empowerment or doing together. And there were many conversations that took place. They would say, hey, yes, we're going to do, we're going to lead this part and we're going to do this part, and we're going to do this part. And we're like, fabulous, we'll do this part, this part and this part. We send the team expecting it to be this great time of serving together and working together and doing this project together, only to find out when they come back they're like, yeah, we showed up, they led the first 15 minutes and then they looked at us and said, okay, you're on, and we pretty much led the rest. And I'm like, oh my gosh, all those phone calls, like we had a plan, we were doing this together, what happened?
Speaker 3:And so you know, if that happens multiple times after multiple conversations, like I'm like they can't bridge the gap and we have to make a decision. Are we going to continue down the same path we've been going, which I think continues to do more harm, or are we going to cut ties? And no one likes to cut ties because there are relationships, people have gotten involved and that takes at least a solid year or two to make that decision. Like, no matter what we do, we do it slowly.
Speaker 3:I know some organizations have said, hey, if you can't move to this empowerment matter, we're out of here. Know some organizations have said, hey, if you can't move to this empowerment matter, we're out of here. Well, one of the things I love about being Methodist Methodist is our first thing is do no harm. So you pull out too quickly, you're going to do more harm, even though the relief model you no longer want to do. So you know you need to be very careful on how you do that. If you decide we need to end this partnership because we can't move from relief and dependency and we can't move away from that.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think that relationship piece is so key. We're one of those organizations that got off, got started off in a relief mode and have had to do this pivot with our partners. We've now been allied with them for 25 years, so it's been an ongoing relationship, trust built. That relationship piece is I don't think it's possible without it, but it's been like it's not a one and done conversation.
Speaker 2:I appreciate your outlining how long it takes, because it's every conversation that we have, including conversations we're currently having, where a question will come up and they'll say, well, you know what should we do? And we say I don't know, what do you think we should do? This is your program, you know, and it's that sort of steady drumbeat that's saying to them no, you really get to decide. You really do get to say no if you want to go in a different direction. You really do get to tell the Americans that you have a better idea, like you really do get to lead. And I think it's it's the layering of those many, many, many, many small conversations that start to deepen that trust and truly empower people. I think they start to internally feel like I do have a voice and the power to make this decision. I think it's really important.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I think, as cause, some people are like well then, you know what are you just going to do, whatever Cause? I've seen other people go all the way to the other side and are just like yeah, whatever you all say, we're going to, we're going to support and we're going to do again. We have a responsibility to our donors to make sure the funds are used correctly. So our capacity and our ability is to say you know what? I think that's fabulous, you want to do that.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately, we can't support. Like we can't fund that project because it's not something that we think makes sense. Like they want to pull, put a pool in their backyard and, granted, that's just a random thing. Like we're going to say, no, we're not going to fund your pool, so but if they want to go find funding from someone else who wants to fund their pool, that's fabulous, have at it, go for it. Like we're not going to tell them what to do and what they can and can't do. But we have a responsibility on behalf of those who give us money to say yes or no. Right, we think makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So there's a certain aspect of there is a lane for you to stay in and our lane is we do have a responsibility to our donors to make sure that we're doing work that aligns with what we said we wanted to do and what we are, what our values are. And I think, in my thought, I think it's hard for Americans to stay in that lane. Going back to the example you gave of like a mission team going on the ground and the partners say you know, all right, you take over. And they did. They just took over, because we as Americans have a hard time, not just, you know, Nike, just do it. You know we like to jump in and just do things. So, as an organization, how have you all learned to hold space and say we're not going to just jump in?
Speaker 3:and say we're not going to just jump in. I think it's easier for staff to not jump in and or to do it from sitting here in Kansas City on a Zoom call versus being in country with a group of people and a volunteer led. Like you know, one of the things that we tell them is our host is in charge. So if they ask you, you know, hey, I want you to. You know, go scrub toilets. And you came to teach empowerment workshops. Well, we're going to go scrub toilets because that's what our host has asked us to do.
Speaker 3:So you know, we've worked hard to train our volunteers to listen to them. So when they turn to us and they say, hey, go ahead and lead it from there, they're like, oh okay. So I think that's the hard thing and that's where we just have to go back with our hosts and say, hey, they're going to follow your lead because that's what we've told them to do. But we really need you to lead this. We're along for the ride and we're so excited we get to join you in this work, but we can't be in charge of what you're doing in your community.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, that's a great example. We were members of Standards of Excellence and Short-Term Missions and getting that feedback from partners and going back to them and saying listen, you know, this is how we've taught teams to engage. If they're not doing what they're supposed to do, get them in line and tell us so we'll get them in line. But also, you have a role to play as well, for sure, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3:We're members of that as well, which is fabulous, fabulous, and I would give a shout out anyone I think it's Mission Excellence now anyone who is working towards Serve Trips. It's just a great foundation and they are actually the ones that helped us redo our entire programming and training and the ways that we engage about 10 years ago, so they were huge for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love, mission excellence, that's great. So we were talking a little bit about not providing resources, not jumping in and doing things first, but would you say that there are other investments, maybe not financial or resource, but training, trust, you know other things that have to be invested to build an empowering organization.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think part of it is just being like I call it patience capital because we want, we want things to happen right away, and so part of that is helping donors understand the empowerment model versus the relief model, because it is so much easier to fundraise. If you're saying, hey, we're going to go ahead and and we're going to feed 1000 children today, then say, hey, we're going to train 20 people so that they can train 20 more people and, you know, feed their families, and then they're going to train 20 more people that this is going to take three years and at some point they're going to have food for us and they're going to be able to eat like as much as they want, as often as they want, as nutritiously as they want. That's just a harder sell for for donors to jump and get excited about, and so I know one of the things that we had to do was we had to spend time with our donor base and helping them understand hey, this is where we're headed. It's going to take us a had to spend time with our donor base and helping them understand hey, this is where we're headed. It's going to take us a while to get there. You know, can you be patient With.
Speaker 3:That said, we've also had to be patient with our partners because, first of all, they're on a different time schedule than we are. You know us those of us from the US are like let's get this done, let's move on. We're very task oriented, they're relational, so something that we may be like, okay, we're going to check this off and we're going to get this done. They're going to get it done at some point. But you know what, if someone needs to talk to them or if someone lost a family member or whatever that might be like, everything stops for them to do that. So we need to practice patience and realize they're always actually better because they're investing in the people, they care about their people while we're focused on the task.
Speaker 3:And I think the other investment again, then, is we need to work on investing in people. So we need to encourage, we need to lift up, we need to say hey, it's okay if you mess up. It's okay If you thought this project was going to be successful, but it's not like we get it. We're not going to, we're not going to hit a home run. 100% of the time you're going to hit, we're going to get, we're going to strike out some, and that's okay. We're not going to leave because of that. A lot of that is patience for us individually, it's patience for our donors and it's just giving everyone time to move through this process, because it's mindset change and you can't change minds overnight.
Speaker 2:Anyone's donors, community leaders, anyone's- Yaz likes to tell our short-term mission teams you know our teams go over for a couple weeks at a time and she likes to point out to them that they're not going on a two-week mission trip, that they're not engaged in a two-week mission trip, they're a moment in a 25-year mission, so that you know, sort of gives them the sense of this is an ongoing, it doesn't stop, it just is, you know, you're a part of it and you're an important part of it.
Speaker 2:But it's this relationship that's like, honestly, longer than some marriages, and so you know, understanding that, have some humility about that, and I do think there is a.
Speaker 2:There's a thing about relief models that makes you feel like you've got the superhero cape on it, makes you feel so good about yourself, You've rushed into some horrible situation and you're delivering aid and you feel amazing and and. But the cape is on you and I think in empowerment models like this, it's you deliberately finding ways to put the cape on someone else and then melt into the background in some way, in some supportive, like you know, behind the scenes kind of way, which feels to me much more biblical in the way that Jesus actually engaged people that he was serving during his time on earth. But it's a real shift, I think, in how people think about themselves and how they're going to engage in these short-term mission programs or in these programs. So can you talk a little bit about how it will feel differently to people used to that old model. How will they perceive that in themselves? How will they, on the ground, understand, oh, this is what an empowerment model looks like, feels like, as opposed to this other thing that I'm used to?
Speaker 3:like, as opposed to this other thing that I'm used to, we spend a lot of time preparing people for that different mindset, because it is a hard one, because we do. You know, every time I talk to someone about going on a trip, they're like I just want to make a difference, I just want it to be impactful. I don't want to go and not have it make a difference. And and I love that, I love that we want to make a difference. But trying to help them understand you showing up just because you care, like that makes a difference, like, yeah, you're going to go and you're going to do something. That's fabulous, but that's secondary.
Speaker 3:The most important thing you can do is just show up. Just show up and say man, this, you guys are doing incredible work here, this is so cool and I'm so excited to participate in whatever it is you might have me participate in. And you know the analogy that's similar to the cape that I like to give is like so we're all on the bus together, that our partners on the ground, they're driving the bus and maybe the community leaders are sitting in the front couple rows. You're in the back, like you're in the back of the bus and you're just back there saying, whoa, you guys are amazing, I love this, you guys are awesome. So it's like party in the back. You guys are the party in the back. Just hang out back there. That's a great image.
Speaker 2:That's a great image In an empowering program. How would you say the day-to-day interaction between external partners and local community members is different than a more traditional relief approach?
Speaker 3:So traditional relief is much faster. You can get in and you can get out and you have tangible results pretty quickly. So it's a nice way to be able to report back to people hey, this is how your money was spent, whereas empowering, like I, don't get back with people to say, hey, this is what this is, you know, thank you so much for your donation, this is what it's achieved. Here's a story, here's some pictures. A lot of times it's six months to 12 months, because it just takes a lot of time, and so again it goes back to that whole patience thing. Relief is so easy to get back and say, hey, this is what you did, thanks so much. Empowering is just like hey, I am going to get back to you, thank you so much for your donation, it's going to be well, sit tight.
Speaker 2:Yep that patience thing, and we're coming back to patience over and over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think also with that, there's like American mindset of crisis. You know, we see something happening around the world, we see a child that's sick, we see a natural disaster, we see you know any level of things and we think this is a crisis that has to be solved immediately and we have this like fear. If we don't act now, then we can't make a difference. And I think certainly organizations perpetuate this idea. You know you have to donate right this minute, or this child is going to die and it you know it's an effective fundraising campaign. But I think it does instill that lack of patience that you're talking about, that we have to do it right, this second.
Speaker 1:And I think it's a lesson that we've started to learn from our partners to not panic. We'll see something on the news happening in Sierra Leone a coup, a riot, a disaster or something and we'll immediately call them and say like, oh my gosh, what are you going to do? And start panicking. And they're like I'm going to go to work tomorrow. I'm going to do my job. It may take me longer because the roads may be blocked. My job, it may take me longer because the roads may be blocked, but there's no panic ever in their voices about whatever is going on, and I think that's a valuable, that's something we can learn much more.
Speaker 2:And I want to go back to the point you were making about being patient with donors and the sort of intentional education of donors that this is going to take longer, this is going to be harder, you're not going to get feedback as quickly, you know, as you would like, perhaps, or as you used to, and things like that.
Speaker 2:We've been talking, or I've been talking for a year or so, about the need to start changing our language around donations and fundraising and using words like investment, and so, instead of you're donating this check because a tanker blew up in Freetown and they need relief this minute, and so you have to get on your fundraiser, your GoFundMe, and just shoot money at that problem that you need to start thinking about, or you should start thinking about your charitable dollars as an investment. Are you investing in this community? Are you investing in the empowerment of these families? And just because I think that word investment gives you a, it gives you more patience, it gives you a sense. This is a longer term commitment to something that's going to take longer but be more meaningful.
Speaker 3:So I like that you're using that language Well yeah, and I think investment is a great word to use with donors. I hope there comes a day where donors are more used to an empowering type model, where they have learned enough that relief is good in certain situations, but most situations you really want to invest in people and their development so that they can change their own communities and they can drive development in their communities, and so I think that's just a huge mindset change for people in the US and I don't know, I hope we can bridge it. I hope enough nonprofits out there. Importance of local leadership even even in some crisis situations, that is important for people on the ground to be in the leadership position.
Speaker 2:So what role does like local knowledge and existing community structures and that kind of thing play in shaping programs that are going to genuinely empower people so they can address their own relief?
Speaker 3:I think. I think this is the key that most nonprofits miss is that investment in local leaders, and so they never leave a community, like I know quite a few, a lot of nonprofits that are doing great holistic community development but they haven't left. Nonprofits that are doing great holistic community development but they haven't left. They have not left because if they leave, whatever projects, programs they put in place start to deteriorate and that's because they have not invested in those local leaders, and so the biggest thing that they can do is, first of all, get to know the community and not just the leaders in the community. One of Hugo, who works for an organization called Opulence in Malawi well, he's actually the founder. One of the things he said to me one day was super helpful. He said you know, when we start working in a community and meeting with the chiefs, which are like mayors in the US for knowing in Africa I know you guys know that, but for those listening, the chiefs and the most verbal ones aren't necessarily the best leaders or the leaders that people will follow. Leaders that people will follow like they will look around the room as they're meeting and connecting and look for the people that might be quiet but that when they do speak, other people listen and other people follow. So the first thing that they have to do is identify the real leaders, the leaders that people will follow, versus the most outgoing or the loudest people in the room. Once they've identified that, then they start having those conversations about you know what would you like your community to look like, and and what does that? And then you've got to begin with the end in mind. So as you're talking to those leaders, they need to know you're not staying, you're not going to be there to the end of time, like there's always going to be an exit strategy. So as you start, if you're talking about food security, if you're starting about economic empowerment, you should be also starting by saying, okay, what are our goals? What does food security mean Like, what does that mean in this community? When we hit that target, we will be gone and to hit that target, part of that is in that community.
Speaker 3:Do the local leaders, do they have a vision to reach more people for food security? Have you hit critical mass? So maybe 60% in the community are food secure. Do they have trainers? Do they have people that know enough about what food security looks like, what permaculture, whatever agronomy that they're doing that has they have people that know enough about what food security looks like? What permaculture, whatever agronomy that they're doing that has proven successful in that area? Are there enough people there that can help new people become food secure? And then, are the chiefs? Are all of the different levels of leadership in that community? Are they on board with this project? Will they continue to support the other leaders of these different levels of the project?
Speaker 3:So I think if you don't have any of that, like if you don't have local leaders for any of those things, you're never going to leave a community. You're going to be there forever. So then you're limited. You can't reach more people, and the whole goal of nonprofits is to reach more people. No one wants to be in the same community forever. So without empowerment you're not going to reach more people. You're wasting money, you're throwing it away.
Speaker 1:I actually was listening to a podcast today or a training webinar, and it was a proverb from the DRC that says a good chief is like a forest Everyone can go there and get something. So this idea that leaders are people where, they are resources for their community and they develop those resources and cultivate that forest so that people can get what they need to thrive, I think yeah, I think you're totally spot on with that. Let's talk a little bit about measurement, monitoring and evaluation. That's kind of supposed to be my bread and butter. So I think what you're saying is we need to ask donors to invest long-term. You know, let's make this long-term investment in a community, but if we're talking about long-term, let's make this long-term investment in a community, but if we're talking about long-term investment, that doesn't show results immediately. So how do we go about showing impact? How do we measure empowerment in practice? How do we know that what we're doing is actually doing that before we get to that final stage of it? What are the changes and indicators that?
Speaker 3:So in that I almost hear two different questions. One is showing impact to donors and then the other is, you know, monitoring, evaluation, when can you? When can you move on from either community or have that project come to an end? Donors like. Part of it is a little bit almost easier on the front end because you're like 20 people trained so show some pictures of the project, give a story about how that person's life is different because of that project, with a picture like I think that usually comes within six months to a year of the beginning of a project, or at least that's what I found in the different projects that we do.
Speaker 3:The harder part is usually there's several years after that before you can actually leave and there's not a whole lot to show for it. And that's where it gets tricky, because part of that is the support that creating that foundation for those leaders. Because if you go in and all you're doing is training those leaders on conflict management, project management, monitoring and evaluation, like they're gonna, they're like see, like nothing is happening from this, all you're doing is wasting my time. I still can't feed my family. So the nonprofits that we work with, like the first thing that they're doing is like a food security project. So all of a sudden they're able to start feeding their family, they're able to get vegetables within several weeks and you're able to have fruit trees within six months or banana trees, and then you know more like like they're able to see some change once they can. The leaders can see those that change and they're they're able to feed their families and they're they're starting other businesses because they're selling some of the extra food that they're even making and they're seeing this change. They're willing to say, oh okay, you guys are doing good things. Now I'm willing to listen to you about conflict management. I'm willing to listen to you on how to run a project. So you almost have to go back then and put that foundation and give them those skills so that they can continue to do their projects. Some people may have these skills, but when we're talking about rural communities and vulnerable countries, like in a lot of African countries, they haven't had the opportunity to have classes on leadership classes or how to run a project and how to follow up and how to monitor, like they just don't know. I didn't know 12, 15 years ago. I had no idea. Someone had to train me, I had to learn. So that's where it's almost harder with donors, because you need to spend several years going in and making sure.
Speaker 3:And this kind of goes back to the second part of the what. I heard your question as your, your metrics. Are the community leaders able to make decisions? Are they leading the trainings? Are they able to track and monitor their projects that they're doing in their communities? Can they troubleshoot when there are challenges in the program and respond with their own resources? Those are kind of like when all of a sudden the leaders are handling those in a project, it's like okay, they don't need us, like they don't need us anymore. And then, of course, when families are able to continue to improve their current way of life, and that's I think that's the hard thing with any project.
Speaker 3:When you begin with the end in mind. What is that end? Because, like you, could be there forever. I mean, is the end they know a vocation? Is the end their university trained? Is the end that they're, you know, eating nutritious meals two times a day, or is it three times a day? Like what? What is your end goal? And then that's helps you know when to leave that project, and that's a question every nonprofit and community needs to answer. I think when you start the project.
Speaker 1:Laura and I attended a conference last year and we were talking about what is that future state that you want to reach? I feel like a lot of nonprofits are like.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, children are malnourished and they're living on the streets and there's no food security and there's no jobs and there's no this but they never stop and think what would the world look like, what would this community look like if it was thriving and then aiming towards that future state, as you're talking about? Really articulating this is how we know that we're done is super, super important, and I like the way that you combined. You're right, those were two questions that I asked together, but I feel like you linked them well together, because it's not just donors that we have to demonstrate impact to. It's also community recipients that have to see that this is something that's actually going to help me and benefit me in a tangible way. It's the organizations that are implementing this that have to say this is actually going to work and going to be empowering. Going to work and going to be empowering.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, we're getting close to the end, and so I want to ask you what advice would you give to organizations that are listening, that might be overly reliant on a relief model, because that's sort of where they came from, but they do genuinely want to shift toward a more empowering approach? How would you advise them to start on that path?
Speaker 3:I think I mean there's two huge buckets that they would have to work on. First, again, the donors educating donors and understanding why empowerment is crucial if you really want to see life change, that it's going to take many years and that, like before, you can even go down the path of empowerment. You need to make sure, either if you know, if you're a nonprofit, your board is, you know, if they can get behind it and they can see the vision, then they can also work with you to cast that vision for your donors. Again, it is a very hard transition to make, but I think it's a very worthy transition and I think we're doing a disservice to people around the world if we don't transition to more of an empowerment model. And then the other piece of advice is no, you can't make your partner change.
Speaker 3:The ultimate power that you have is in deciding whether you're going to continue to work with that partner or whether you're not.
Speaker 3:And you have to give them time, like you may come and say hey, I've, you know, I've been hearing about and I've been talking to people about this empowerment model and it totally makes sense to me and this is why.
Speaker 3:But they're going to be like what are you talking about? I mean, I don't think this word has been spread as globally as we'd like to, especially when you, you know, go into the rural communities around the globe and so it's going to take time for them to adjust and lots of conversation. So I think there needs to be patience and if you do decide to end, if you do decide, hey, we can't continue to do this relief model, which is heartbreaking and wrenching for everyone, end it well, make sure you, whether you have to back out over a year or two years or three years, try to do no harm as you end that partnership. But I wouldn't, as horrible as it is, I wouldn't stay in a relief mode just because you've been partners for five or 10 years, because then they're just going to rely on you forever and it's going to be generation after generation that is going to be looking for a handout and that's just not fair to those future children, those future generations.
Speaker 2:I think that's so important. I think, you know, I've watched individuals build dependency in people and their families. I've watched communities build, you know, or nonprofits build dependency in communities and things like that, and I think people don't realize the harm that causes. You know, because you're trying to do something nice, you're trying to, you're trying to help, but creating those endless cycles of dependency and generations of dependency cripples people. It cripples people's ability to do for themselves, and I'm struck by Jesus's example of you know. He didn't do things for people. He told people pick up your mat and walk. He worked with people, he engaged people, but he expected them to engage in their own rescue alongside him. And so it's sort of baked in to you know our mission as Christians to approach it in this way, and so I'd like to see us get back to thinking of it that way, looking back over. Oh so go ahead.
Speaker 3:You say, well, and he made people think, like his parables. He didn't tell people what to do, he didn't direct them, like he would tell a story and make them come to their own conclusions. Like how did we get so off, how did we get so off track with this? Like, seriously, jesus nailed thousands of years ago. Yet here we are.
Speaker 2:Yes, and yet here we are, absolutely Still learning this lesson. And yet here we are.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Still learning this lesson and the patience thing I mean. He said the poor will always be among you and I think all accounts of the Bible show that this man was not in a rush to do just about anything. You know he's going to see. You know he's getting a call for Lazarus and they're like you need to go see him now. He's going to die now and he's like you know we'll get there when I get there.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, yeah, I'm headed that way. Yeah, that's good, that's really good. So, looking back over your career, what's one key lesson that you've learned about balancing immediate needs and long-term community development?
Speaker 3:That there's no easy answer, there's no staples easy button.
Speaker 3:It's not black and white. It's so hard and I can't tell you like I have learned so much over the last 14 years because of the incredible people that I've gotten to work with, from the mistakes that we've made along the way, and I I still definitely don't know everything. I'm still learning and I'm still scared to death, and I wouldn't say scared to death, but like I'm still concerned that I'm making mistakes and are we doing it right? And every decision that we make, we try to do it thoughtfully and prayerfully and with lots of conversations. And is it the right thing? And part of that is you have to pray, you have to listen well, you have to form those relationships and then you have to give the rest to God and say you know what I'm doing, the best I can do and I'm going to continue doing the best I can do, but ultimately, like this has got to be you, because I can't do it, I'm just not equipped, I'm not smart enough to even try to solve some of these huge challenges that take place around the world.
Speaker 2:You know, he is a big piece, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, there's one last question that we like to ask all of our guests, which is what keeps you optimistic or hopeful?
Speaker 3:Every time I see someone who thought they weren't capable of doing something, find out that they not only are capable, but they're more than capable just brings me absolute, pure joy.
Speaker 3:When I see someone who would not look me in the eye before, just because I don't know they're beaten down or didn't think they had any skills, like stand up tall, look me in the eye and say this is what I think we should do, or, you know, this is the project I would like to do, this is my plan.
Speaker 3:This is what has happened in my life because I've done all this other stuff. Like when they exude that confidence, I can't like I am literally my breath is taken away, like just this feeling that just bubbles up inside me. I can't like I am literally my breath is taken away, like just this feeling that just bubbles up inside me and I'm like, oh, this is why we do this, this is so cool, and like I, you can't explain it until you see it, and that is just that is what wakes me up every morning. And I see all the wars and I see you know all the bad things that are happening, whether it be natural disasters when I see all the violence and all the hatred that's out there. I'm like there are good people doing amazing things in their communities around the world and we can't lose sight of that.
Speaker 2:That's a great note to end on Sheree. I want to thank you for being on the podcast with us and I want to thank our audience for joining us on this episode. We like to say it's a big messy world out there and there is no shortage of need, but we here at Optimistic Voices believe that with radical courage and radical collaboration together, we can change the world. Thanks for listening.
