Optimistic Voices
Vital voices in the fields of global health, global child welfare reform and family separation, and those intent on conducting ethical missions in low resource communities and developing nations. Join our hosts as they engage in conversations with diverse guests from across the globe, sharing optimistic views, experiences, and suggestions for better and best practices as they discuss these difficult topics.
Optimistic Voices
Be the Change: Taking the Lead in Child Welfare in the Global South
Join us on a transformative journey as we explore the profound shift from orphanage care to family-based support in Sierra Leone and beyond. Featuring insights from George Kulanda, the case management supervisor at the Child Reintegration Center, and David Titus Musa, a senior consultant at the Center, this episode promises a deep dive into the complexities and triumphs of reintegrating children into family environments. From engaging with orphanage leaders to collaborating with governments and civil society organizations, David shares his inspiring transition from the confines of orphanage walls to advocating for family reintegration. Meanwhile, George sheds light on his role in bolstering family ties and ensuring successful reintegration through comprehensive case management.
Moving beyond individual stories, we explore the broader implications of family strengthening and financial literacy programs in Africa. Delving into the challenges caregivers face, we uncover the delicate balance between providing for and nurturing children, while also highlighting innovative research methods used to assess these programs' effectiveness. The episode also brings to life the rich discussions from the Christian Alliance for Orphans Summit, where diverse voices from across the globe, especially from the Global South, are given the platform they deserve. This dialogue is pivotal in reshaping global child welfare conversations and ensuring that care leavers and practitioners can voice their unique perspectives unhindered.
Our journey would be incomplete without emphasizing the irreplaceable value of face-to-face connections in cultures like Sierra Leone, where true understanding and trust are built. Through compelling anecdotes from George and David, we uncover the limitations of digital interactions and the profound impact of in-person engagement. Whether it's overcoming visa hurdles or fostering international networks in Mozambique and Uganda, the episode underscores the necessity of direct personal connections in advancing child protection initiatives across West Africa. This episode is a clarion call for empowering Global South voices and fostering collaborations that lead to systemic change and shared knowledge in the realm of child welfare.
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Thank you for watching Welcome to Optimistic Voices Podcast. I'm your host, laura Horvath. In this episode I'm going to talk to two gentlemen that I consider colleagues, but also my friends, and I don't think it's exaggerating the point to say that the work they do makes my work possible in almost every way. In my role as the Director of Programs and Global Engagement, the global engagement piece of what I do is probably the simplest. All I do really is share the stories of the work these men and their co-workers in Sierra Leone do every day to reunite children with their families, strengthen and empower caregivers and the communities in which they live and work and empower organizations to shift their model of care to family care and advocate tirelessly for children to know and grow in the love of a permanent and safe family. Because they're busy actually doing the work and because it's not easy to share these stories with the world from Sierra Leone with its challenges, with power and reliable internet connectivity, I get to do that, but we talk a lot at HCW and within the global child welfare sector about how important it is to bring the local leaders and actors to the tables.
Speaker 1:People like me in the global north get to sit at all the time, and yet I think we're not doing that as well as we should be. Shouldn't at least half of the people in these rooms making decisions and having these conversations and discussing best practices be the ones actually doing those practices? And how would those conversations change if we made more of an effort to include these and create these opportunities? And what could those conversations lead to in terms of care reform for children all over the world? It's my honor and joy to introduce these two gentlemen to you today. First we have George Kulanda, who is the case management supervisor over the social work team at the Child Reintegration Center in Beausier-Lyon, and with him is David Titus Moussa, the senior consultant and lead of a two-person CRC team providing transition support services to orphanages seeking to change their model of care to family care, not just in Sierra Leone, but in several countries in Africa. David and George, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, laura, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being here. So just full disclosure. David's been on our podcast before. Please, after you listen to this episode, please check out his episode, which is entitled why the Move from Orphanages to Family Homes is an African Ideal, so I'm going to introduce him first. David, can you share a bit about your role at the Child Reintegration Center in Sierra Leone and how you got into this work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you once more, Laura, and I am David Titus Musa again and.
Speaker 2:I'm working as a senior consultant for the CRC's Reintegration Department. Well, I first went to the CRC in 2014, working in the Child Support Program Department, and I was there when the orphanage was in existence, in full existence, 100% existence. So in 2018, after going through our research and assessment and everything, when the organization decided to reunify all the children back to their families, a department was established called the Training, coaching and Mentoring Department. So I was moved to that department to also work as a senior consultant, and since then, I've been working with orphanage leaders and organizations in Sierra Leone and recently in other parts of Africa. So basically, that is how I got to that position as a consultant.
Speaker 1:So primarily your role is in helping orphanages that want to change their way of helping kids to transition from being an orphanage to putting kids in families.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is currently my role role and that's what I do. We work with orphanage leaders and organizations in different different parts of the country and West Africa. We move in Africa generally. We move to these organizations and try to engage them, engage the leaders, and also work with other stakeholders in different sectors, like the government and community civil society organizations, to also see how we can disseminate the message of children living in family and also family-based care programs.
Speaker 1:Okay, very good. George, your role at the CRC is a little bit different than David's. What is your role and how did you get into this line of work?
Speaker 3:All right, thank you, laura. My name is George Colanda again.
Speaker 1:Let me just double check his microphone. Okay, I just didn't want to get too far. Let me double check your microphone Mine. Yeah, you're good, just want to make sure. Is it not coming through? Yeah, it's not as strong as the other one, so let me put you on another one, just because it's a lot lower in volume.
Speaker 1:So I hate to have one that the person's having to edit it, right. Have one. That's the person's having to edit it, right. Sorry, your, your volume is really low and it's just easier to this one's at the ready. Sorry, yeah, I'll just put this one on. Oh yeah, you were the only one that I was like. I can hear you, but you're lying. Might as well get it from the bit, though. I guess that's when you put it in tiny bags. That's what happens.
Speaker 3:Alright, let me make sure the batteries are good, alright, yep, good, good, good.
Speaker 1:Sorry about that, alright, so just clip it right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry about that All right, so just clip it right there. Yeah, Is it too hot? No, just a little bit Good, good, good.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna turn you off. I'm gonna put you on yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow. Put you on the yellow yellow. Talk again, hi, do you want? Do you just want to restart where you were? Would it help if I restart you? You want me to go ahead?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can just start.
Speaker 1:Okay, good.
Speaker 3:All right, thank you again, laura. I am George Kulanda. My role is quite different from David's role. That's because what David do currently gave rise to what is happening in my own department, in the sense that when there was a transition from the orphanage system to family-based care and there was a need for a case management system, because you do not just want to move children back to families, you may want to know how they are doing, what concerns do they have about their health and other things. So currently that's my role. I, we, my team, I have a team of social workers called case managers. We supervise and monitor families, we visit them and we assess their needs and see how we can give possible interventions and build upon the strengths they have to move them towards independence. So basically that's my role at the Child Integration Center currently.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to throw a question I hadn't shared with you before just into the mix and I'll ask you both when an orphanage transitions, why? First of all, why would an orphanage not have social workers? Because most don't, or maybe they have one or two, but then, as you're moving kids back home, they're going back to families. Why would you now need a team of social workers? Why is that an important part of transition? And either one of you can answer both.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, as I've said rightly, it is important to have social workers, skilled social workers, to monitor these families, these children, especially because if you care so much about the children and you want to see that they do well in life and you may want to follow up on them, but you know the manager alone cannot do it, the administration cannot do it. That's why you need social workers and you do not just need social workers, you need skilled social workers that can be able to assess um needs you should. They should be able to monitor progress and see how we can keep track of that, to see that they are moved towards independence, because you're not going to give them support for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anything to add, david?
Speaker 2:yes, well, um, vulnerable children and family need support, not only physical support like medication, food and other things, maybe emotional supports. Some may have been traumatized from different, different situations. So I mean they need social workers. You know, train social workers to really help them heal their trauma and, you know, take them through a lot of things that will really keep their families together. So they need those kind of support from social workers or case managers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to add up to that, you may also want to see that these families are empowered, because that's one of the things that have helped to move families towards independence. Because when you empower families, you are helping them move towards independence. And how? You do not just sit down and empower them, you do that through the social workers.
Speaker 1:It takes skilled social work to know how to help a family move toward independence. Yeah, I think that's an important thing. Okay, so, like a lot of global northerners in the child welfare sector, my area of expertise is not in organizational change, it's not in social work. And yet when there is a meeting of experts in transition or child welfare or child protection, I'm often the partner who gets to attend. So I have some knowledge about that, but that's not my field of expertise. It's not what I studied.
Speaker 1:One big example of this is HCW attends the Christian Alliance for Orphans Summit every year and that brings about 2,000 people together from all over the world to share best practices and learn from each other on the topics of child welfare, child protection, foster and adoption, transition support, which is the transition of orphanages to family care, and a range of other topics, and it's a really rich three days where these experts get to meet together and share best practice ideas and have knowledge exchange. That happens, but in the four or five years that HCW has been able to attend this, we have never really been able to bring the practitioners that are actually doing the work on the ground to the summit, and I think that's a problem. So, george and David, you are the expert practitioners, you're the ones doing the job every day on the ground in Sierra Leone. You're doing the child protection work, the child welfare work, transition support work. So you must come to Summit all the time.
Speaker 1:I know I just said I set that up wrong. We're going to have to cut that. I know. We're going to cut that out, okay, okay. Let me go to the next question. So, george, what finally prompted your attendance at Summit this year?
Speaker 3:Well, the HCW won a grant with Christian Alliance for Orphans. So through CRC we had to organize some kind of family strengthening workshop to showcase the importance of family strengthening. So that prompted my attendance because this had to go through Dr Sarah Neville, who is a researcher. She went down to Sierra Leone trained the social work team on the ground and we had to narrow down some things to our level so that we understand exactly what we are doing. So we had to carry on that workshop to see how families bond. And it comes again with financial literacy and that kind of thing and attachment as well. So through that I got a scholarship to attend KFU. Yeah, so that is something. So there's no. Yeah, so that is something I'm. So Do you want to start over?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, so Okay, what do we do?
Speaker 3:Ask the question again, or maybe I should start over.
Speaker 1:Okay, Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the HCW got a scholarship from Christian Alliance for Orphans.
Speaker 1:Back up. We got a research grant.
Speaker 3:A research grant. Thank you. Helping Children Worldwide got a research grant from Christian Alliance for Orphans. So through CRC we had Dr Sarah Neville going down to Sierra Leone to train the social work team on the ground to see that we have something tangible to show that family strengthening was important.
Speaker 1:Right, so you had a family strengthening workshop that CRC already did, yes, and talk a little bit about the family strengthening workshop and then we can explain what Sarah was doing and how she was related to that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the family strengthening workshop basically deals with how families build up strong relationships and bond better.
Speaker 3:And it also goes with financial literacy because dealing with bonding and with caregivers and children, because basically in the African context we believe so much in family ties and relationships but we have come to realize that some caregivers find it very difficult to bond better.
Speaker 3:That's because most of the time, most of them are focused with either providing for their families and making sure that things are going on well, as forgetting that they have some place, some nurturing aspect of their responsibility as parents.
Speaker 3:Coming again to the financial literacy, you know most of our parents in some cases are not that kind of literate. They are not financially literate. So that is one of the things we do to help them to see, because when we want to empower families, we want to see that these families, empowered, will be able to be financially stable and see how they can manage their money, their money very well and budgeting and savings and all of that rest. So that's some of the things we do and again, we try to see how parents can as well apologize to their children, because that is one thing that is challenging in that part of the world, because parents have to be sorry for what they do to children and children have to show that kind of remorse when they do wrong to their caregiver. So those are some of the things so CRC was already doing this family too wrong to your caregiver.
Speaker 1:So those are some of the things, yeah, yeah. So CRC was already doing this family strengthening workshop training with caregivers and children in the program, and we thought at HCW and CRC we kind of thought it was having good outcomes, like it was having a positive impact on caregivers and caregivers would say to you that they appreciated the training. But we didn't have research to actually like prove that it was working. And so the CAFO Research Grant partnered us with Dr Sarah Neville and Dr Sarah came to Sierra Leone specifically to teach the staff not how to do the workshop, but what did she specifically teach the staff? How to do.
Speaker 3:She came back to Sierra Leone and she told us around the questions, because the questions were centered around the family strengthening and the financial literacy the survey questions. The questions were around family strengthening, financial literacy and how caregivers temperament, emotions, emotional regulations. These were the questions around that because in most cases we found out that when caregivers get emotional they do things out of the way. So the questions were centered around that and the questions were tailored. She took us through some research, ethics and some of the things that we should do and not to do, because the research was not that kind of compulsory, being that we have a target age bracket which was between ages 9 to 13. As well, she was emphatic that it was not compulsory. Everybody will opt to do it or not. So around that we had a target group and we were able to understand the questions and translated those questions to our local language, which helped us. So it made it easier for our respondents to understand the questions.
Speaker 1:And you did surveys with them before they took the workshop and then after.
Speaker 3:Yes, we did the survey before the workshop and after the workshop as well, so that was like pre and post.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, and then analyze that data, and so part of your attendance at Summit this year is to do what that's related to this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, part of what I'll be doing at the Summit is I'll be co-presenting with Dr Sarah Neville and Dr Laura Harvard. Yeah, so with the research, the research symposium.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Okay, david, why are you coming to Summit? What will you be doing at Summit this year?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, as a practitioner, a transition practitioner, there's no point.
Speaker 1:Where oh the mic fell off?
Speaker 2:Oh, because I was like what happened? I agree, sorry, okay, all right, okay, good, yeah, okay. So, as a transition practitioner, there's no point where you say I've learned everything and I'm a super coach or whatever. So you need more knowledge to be well-capacitated to help other institutions, because you, being a coach, your responsibility is solely to really help other institutions or organizational leaders.
Speaker 2:And so, with that, having gone through other trainings, and I applied for the K4 Care Transition Accelerator Academy course and I was accepted for two years, so I have the opportunity to attend the Christian Alliance for Orphans Summit for 2024 and 2025. And so I know coming to the summit is not only to be an audience, but I'm also there to teach, to serve as a stable coach and to also teach others what I've learned so far from my course, because I'm at the end of the first lap of the course, going towards the second as a final part of it, which means I've learned a lot and which is enough to really help others who are coming to the conference to learn from us and also to learn more from others, because there are people who are also going to teach us and we are going to gain a lot of knowledge. So that's how I got to be part of the summit.
Speaker 1:And you'll be presenting as well? Not so yeah, I will be presenting a workshop on our partnership and how we're shifting our partnership so that the people actually leading that conversation are the people in the global south and not in the global north, which I think is a really important conversation to have at CAFO, with other organizations that have similar partnerships, to begin to have conversations around how those partnerships should be structured. So I can tell you that I've been in a lot of rooms over the past several years where people from the global north, like me, talk about how important it is that we include the voices of care leavers, that is, young people that have grown up in institutional care and aged out without ever being placed in a family, that they have a lived experience of being in institutional care, and we talk a lot about the importance of including the voices of practitioners, like the two of you. But there are barriers and challenges that are very real in getting practitioners and care leavers into the rooms where the conversations are happening, which tend to happen primarily in the global north.
Speaker 1:Travel is difficult and expensive, and so one obvious answer people are probably thinking is well, why don't you just Zoom? So why is Zoom not an ideal way to bring us together? I mean, we use it, but why is it not the best solution? What do you think, george?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Zoom having Zoom meetings could be fine, but again it goes with a lot of challenges. It could be connectivity and having bandwidth or so In most cases we've had Zoom meetings where we have to turn off our cameras just to make sure we maintain that kind of bandwidth and keep the communication. And in most cases we've had we are trying to connect takes more time by the time you're connected and you know you're in the middle of the discussion and you you miss out some things and in some cases you're frozen, you just yeah. So it comes with a lot of challenges and connections and it's sometimes in that human connection. Having zoom meetings, yeah, because having to see people in person, you know it fosters more kind of connectivity and confidence and a kind of a kind of relationship.
Speaker 1:David, I think you can speak to this because I know you've participated in lots of Zoom events sessions with other people involved in transition, like in the CAFO Transition Accelerator Academy course. Did I say that right Care Transition? Okay, so you've done that a lot on Zoom, but then you also had the opportunity to travel to Uganda and participate in person in a Better Care Network training on a transition tool framework tool. Can you talk about the difference between you know what is different between engaging on Zoom with transition experts as compared to being in the same room with transition experts?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a vast difference.
Speaker 2:There's a vast difference in, you know, zoom connectivity, zoom connection and in-person connection, because when you are in person, you have a lot of opportunities to really go into deeper conversations without thinking of being disconnected or time. So when I went to Uganda, we had a lot of time to discuss. We discussed at lunch, we discussed during the sessions, we discussed at lunch, we discussed during the sessions, we discussed even moving around, relaxing, we discussed, which means the in-person connection is far, far better than the Zoom, although there are a lot of challenges around that as well. It's not only connectivity issues or power. Also, because I can remember we had a lot of people in our class, the K-A Transition Academy, who wanted to attend KFU, which means they want to be in person to be seen and to also connect with others, but most were denied visas so they were not able to really be part of the summit this year. So that's a problem with the in-person connection from that part of the world, which means there's a problem of transitional leaders or practitioners to meet in person as well.
Speaker 1:It's a really big barrier. You make me think about how we often at CAFO talk about not to knock on the workshops at CAFO, because they're great and the content that you get in those courses is great. But we always say that where the magic happens is in between. It's at, like you say, it's at lunches or it's at dinners, or it's in between the sessions, where you've heard somebody say something and you say, hey, you said something. That was very interesting to me. I want to talk more with you about that and you make connections and relationships and networks get established and you stay in touch with each other and that just doesn't happen. If you only ever meet on Zoom and we try to do that artificially, sometimes on Zoom we'll put people in different Zoom rooms like little small groups and have you try to connect with one another. It's just it's not real. People like to be with real people. I think I would think especially so.
Speaker 1:I'm obviously not Sierra Leonean. This is audio, but you can probably hear in my voice that I'm not Sierra Leonean. My perception of the Sierra Leonean culture is that it's highly relational. Americans can be very individualistic and kind of do things on their own and sort of pride themselves about being like cowboys or whatever. I do it myself and I don't need help, but my perception about Sierra Leoneans is that relationship's really important not just family relationship, but relationships within the community and things like that, and you're both in professions that are also highly relational. So, george, as a social worker, like why is it? This is going to sound like an obvious question, but why is it important for social workers to connect with their clients personally?
Speaker 3:connect with their clients personally. It is always good to connect with your clients and see, because that's because you get to feel in a way, that's how they feel and you get to see the issues. You get to see the problems yourself and by seeing that you have ways of responding to these challenges they face in the cultural context, that is appropriate because that is how it brings positive results. So that's one of the more reasons why it's very, very, very important when you reach out to me, because just by phone calls and just making things formal does not really, you know, it builds more confidence and reliability. And so when you go to where the people are, you see what they're going through and you put yourself, you merge yourself in that kind of situation and see how best you can be able to respond to them and possibly guide them through so that you may reduce certain things that they may be facing.
Speaker 1:So that's why it's more important to travel to them and visit them, so that I think our audience would feel like, yes, of course, when you're working with families and vulnerable children, it's important to go and see where they live and how they interact with the people in their house and their community and things like that. It may not be as obvious for transition support workers but, david, your work, you and your coworker Rosemond, you travel all over the country to meet with orphanage directors in their locations, to work with social workers where they are to go, and meet with government officials, and things like that. Why do you go to that effort? Why not just pick up the phone or get on a Zoom with them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's in the first place. Connecting through phone or Zoom is not something that is really that can really be effective in that part of the world, sierra Leone to be specific because you can pick up a call or you can pick up your phone to make a call and the phone will ring for like several minutes without them picking up their calls and people are not really conscious of you know connections or maybe phone calls let's talk of internet.
Speaker 2:So the most effective way of doing that job is to move up to those people and talk to them face-to-face, because we want to build this relationship with them, and so you can build a very good relationship through phone calls or emails. They can receive emails, they can receive phone calls at some point, but you cannot build a very good relationship or get a very good conversation. So we want to build that kind of relationship that they will really trust what we are doing or what we are seeing, because when you sit with them, when you talk with them, we share a lot of things. We share our experience, we share what we do and sometimes we really show them evidences of what we are doing. So it's really important to move up to them because we want to expand the knowledge base and we can only do that by moving up to these places, to the media.
Speaker 2:We move to offices. Most times we sit in places that you cannot imagine. We sit under mango trees and discuss. Sometimes we meet them. You just sit there and talk with them because you want to make them be comfortable in talking to them. So we sit everywhere, we meet with them everywhere and talk to them.
Speaker 1:You're building trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So I think I took the work a little bit for granted until we the three of us and Melody and the film crew traveled to Mozambique last year and I think that's the first time I had seen firsthand you two talking with social workers and orphanage directors. What was that experience like for you? Because you're the only transition department in all of Sierra Leone, and not that that is a transition department or whatever but just what was it like to talk to someone in another country that's engaged in orphanage work?
Speaker 2:Yeah well, yeah Well. For me that was not the first time, of course. We went to library at some point to engage some leaders who are supporting orphanage, and even orphanage leaders directly, and so going to Mozambique was another experience, a little bit different.
Speaker 2:You know the first thing is the language barrier was a challenge a little bit.
Speaker 2:Although we had an interpreter, we are interpreting what we are saying, but unfortunately we don't know if what we are saying is exactly what we are telling them or they are telling us the same thing. So our language barrier is a little bit of a challenge, but we can overcome that because I mean, at the end of the day, what we want to see is a physical change, Because if we talk about transforming an institution and we see it going on, I mean the physical change is the most important part. So the experience there was rewarding because we had to meet with different people, including government officials. But it's a little bit different because the idea of orphanage, compared to that of us in Sierra Leone, is different, because they see it well. Some of them see it as something that is good at that point, Although we are not saying it's bad but they have not really got the knowledge to see the importance of family-based care compared to orphanage. So that was what I personally observed from the people that we talked to in Mozambique.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think one thing, george, that I observed was even where, in the spaces where they got the idea that children would be better off in families, they didn't necessarily understand that it's not okay to just bring a kid home. Mama, here's your son, and now you know, here's some financial support maybe and everything's going to be okay. So can you speak to that a little bit what that was like or the conversations that you might have had with social workers or about social work there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was a bit different. You know, it's like when you practice a general culture and you have a subculture in that. So that's like a social work culture, but in a Mozambique kind of space you have some kind of social work going on there. So it was a bit different, because there was a story I had of a boy they took to his family but they were forgetting something that they needed to follow up on this and they needed to assess the family before even placing the child with the family. So at some point I was made to understand that the boy came back, or so so well, we are all doing social work. But those are some of the differences you encounter when you see.
Speaker 3:And of course, the language I will not re-emphasize. That was some kind of barrier. So it took us time to really pass on the message because you had to speak to an interpreter and an interpreter tells the social worker what's he or she understands. So it's kind of different somehow. So we only, we only hope that the government helps them to accept that kind of a change and see how they can put more energy on that and get a transition.
Speaker 1:Maybe we planted some seeds for future thinking.
Speaker 2:That is a part of building the structures to transform an institution, and I think that challenge hinges on getting a very good case management system before even taking kids back home. So we didn't see that. Actually they just think as.
Speaker 3:Riley said just taking kids back to their families is just the families are available, yes, they just take them back.
Speaker 2:So they have a lot to learn. Structures to build, like the case management system, to see that when you place a child, that placement has to be a permanent placement. It's not like taking a child and just abandon the child and that's it Right right.
Speaker 1:So those interactions that you had there and I think the ones you had in Liberia, were not necessarily about the exchange of best practices, because you were there to coach and mentor and teach and to engage them on a specific topic. But this year, as I said before David, you got an opportunity to travel to Uganda. Can you just share a little bit about what you were doing there and about what that experience was like, how that was different?
Speaker 2:Yeah, specifically, we went to Uganda to be trained on the transition framework tool. But there was more to that, you know, as far as I'm concerned, because we were not only trained, like sitting and people teaching us. We had the opportunity to meet with other transition experts in the same room and outside during lunch we had this conversation. I know they were deliberate. Actually, those settings were deliberate for us to really discuss issues, and which was fruitful, because at some point we are teamed up like you go to, you pick like two or three people from another country, you sit together and discuss, you know, so we did that multiple times, during lunch and during dinner and so on and so forth. So it was really a well-experienced sharing session. Yeah, and I realized that I almost spoke with almost 90% of the people who are there from different countries, because at some point they would tell you OK, go to a different person from a different country. So at the end of the day, we all ended up discussing with everybody from different, different countries, and so that's really opened up a very good connection between us or amongst us, because we had a forum. Currently, we are people from different countries. When you have a very good material, that really helps, you know, to move the, the transition work forward. You can send to that forum and people will just pick that up and learn from it.
Speaker 2:And um, recently, when I when I'm here S I just got a call from a colleague from Ghana who was also part of the conference. He's trying to develop something about child protection, the challenges and gaps and opportunities of child protection in West Africa. So he reached out to me to just give him some heads up on how child protection works and the opportunities and gaps and challenges in Sierra Leone, and also asked me to connect him to other people if I know them, and I did that with my colleague from CTA in Liberia, yes, and I think somebody else in Nigeria, yes, so I just connected him to those people. So it's like the connection is really working, a circle of connection, different issues now it's just the same goal, but whatever issue that comes up, we have to discuss that in our forum and if there's somebody who has already gone through that and has some knowledge, they can come up and teach and share their experience. So, in a whole, the transition framework tool was really useful to the work because it really teaches institutions who are preparing to go into transition or trying to transform their institution.
Speaker 2:It's not really mandatory. It's not like a Bible, which is the fact. It's not like a Bible, which is the fact. It's not like that. It's something that you can just use and fit into your own context and you can pull out things that you don't need and you can, you know, modify things, you know. But at the end of the day, it's really good that you use it because it guides you a lot in your work.
Speaker 1:Yes, what was the best part of being in Uganda with the other transition folks?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the connection, because the face-to-face connection because these are people we started conversations online but, as we rightly said just now, it's not something that's really effective. But when we meet in person and fortunately there are some who I'm going to meet again here in the US during KFU, so we are discussing that in our forum. I'm going to KFU and somebody will be there, so we are going to meet and we are going to converse. So the best part is really when we meet in person and get some conversation which is important.
Speaker 1:So HCW we've said often on this podcast that we have an ethic around radical collaboration and I really believe that when HCW started to connect with other networks, other organizations that do similar work, it changed everything organizations that do similar work it changed everything. It kind of it leveled us up in a way that we hadn't anticipated, because up until that point I think our first CAFO was 2019, nabs and I went and up until that point we had an orphanage that we supported in Sierra Leone for 16, 18 years. We'd been successfully through the transition, but we'd done it kind of on our own. We kind of knew other people were doing it, but we'd done it kind of on our own. We kind of knew other people were doing it, but we hadn't really reached out. And then we came to CAFO when we started sharing our story and people started connecting to it and we started connecting to groups and organizations and individuals. And then, when we did go away and we had to connect virtually, we'd already made the connection face-to-face go away and he had to connect virtually. We'd already made the connection face-to-face and those collaborations have been really pivotal in growing HCW's work and helping to grow CRC's work.
Speaker 1:So I'm excited that you guys are going to CAFO and making these connections and that you made these connections in Uganda, because I think that's where things start to happen and it's like an iron sharpens iron thing. It's a um, you know, two heads are better than one thing, I don't know it, just it's the collaboration. I think that's the real power, um, that really powers change. Um, I'll tell you that one of the most fun things for me while you were in Uganda is that you would WhatsApp message me and you would talk about how great the training sessions were. But mostly you were in Uganda is that you would WhatsApp message me and you would talk about how great the training sessions were, but mostly you were talking about the connections you were making. And you spoke to a connection you made with someone, um, a transition support expert in Lesotho, um, and I just loved kind of being the fly on the wall, seeing that you were having that experience that I have gotten to have at CAFO and other workshops like that, because I just think that's a really that's just a really important thing and it's a really energizing and uplifting thing when you meet other people.
Speaker 1:Up until you know that opportunity, I mean, you don't get a lot of opportunity to talk to transition support experts in Sierra Leone. Right, because you're it. It's you and Rosemond, you're the only one. So, george, I know you get more opportunity to engage maybe in some best practice conversations with your social work team, because you've obviously got a team of people at CRC, but also with other social workers from organizations in Sierra Leone that are part of the Sierra Leone Coalition for Family Care, princess Promise and the Child and Family Permanency Services. When you engage with the social workers, like at Princess Promise or CFPS, how is that different than when you're just talking to your social workers at CRC?
Speaker 3:Engaging other members of the Sierra Leonean team, the same practice of social workers. Well, we do not really see much of a difference, only that we see that we have in some cases different mandates, because when you talk about Princess Promise, they are purely based with girls, they deal mostly with girls and not boys, whereas we deal with boys and girls, and when we go to CFPS, they they deal with babies, we do not. We have age limits. So there are slight differences anyway.
Speaker 3:But, relating that to a cultural context, I think we all operate on the same context, even though there are times we may have one or two challenges. But it's all good that we have this kind of circle of coalition, also because we in a way help each other, because we've had a case where there was a need for a child to stay in an interim care home, but the child was a girl and then our interim carer was not around, she traveled, so I reached out and so we had Princess Promise and we had to reach out to them, princess Promise, and they were willing to. So that's in a way of we all helping each other to achieve that one goal, which is great, and we learn from each other, because for each time we meet we have topics of discussions, concerns we raise and how we all work, particularly with the ministry, to see that they give us the kind of strong backup we need to do our work on the ground.
Speaker 1:Well, and you've had the opportunity to have Dan Hope come down and do some training from Strengthening Families and Children, but not just a training of you or of the CRC. The coalition members have combined and so you have social workers from Princess Promise and from CRC and from CFPS. Why is that better than if it were just focused on CRC?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, adding up to what I was just saying, it's better when we have people from different organizations to come and share knowledge and see how we can strengthen each other and tap into each other's knowledge. So one of the things I would say is great for us is because most of the times when Dan Hope teaches, he's more concerned about safety concerns and how we can be able to take note of that, because there are concerns we should not outrule in most of these trainings. So when we have people from different organizations coming together, we see that everybody brings his own idea to the table and see how we are, because it's not a competition. We are all trying to help each other to see that we move. So everybody brings his own idea to the table to see that we can tap into that and see how.
Speaker 3:What are the strengths you have, what are my weaknesses? What opportunities do you have? You know what? How can we use all of these together to see that we serve the children and families we, we, we serve. So these are some of the good things about it when we have different people coming together so we build up each other's um potentials and see that we support each other to towards one goal right, it's that power of collaboration again, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Would either one of you like to talk about why you think that partner organizations in the Global North, like HCW, should work harder or make it in their work plans or in their budgets to bring people like you from the Global South to these kinds of meetings and conferences and workshops, more than we are?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like we stated earlier on, you know we have the opportunity to connect virtually and talk to our colleagues and you colleagues, and collaborate with others.
Speaker 2:But I think bringing people from the Global South to really meet with those in the Global North is really important because the in-person conversations are more effective than the virtual connectivity. So it is really important for us to be seen and to talk to each other. But, more importantly, we are doing the work. We are on the ground. We are seeing first-hand issues. Our hands are always on what we are doing, so people may trust what we say more, not that they can trust what people from here will say, but they will really be more interested, you know, in listening to those who are really on the ground and doing the work to share their stories, to share their experience, to talk to them, than those who are here, like the funders or the donors. So it's important for us to be coming and, you know, talking to people. You know so that they are not going to listen to you, you know physically, but to us, seeing us, and believe that what we are doing is the right thing we are doing. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes. So to add up to that, we've had cases where people in the global annals have attended these summits and workshops, but you find out that in most cases they have the funds and so in most cases we have people in the global south attended to do things the way the funders in the global nodes want things to go and the global not want things to go. So you see, so in that case you have to allow, if there are ways you help people in the global south to come to the ground and see, and when they see the land, what is available here and to bring that to their own cultural context and see how they can fit into what is best there on the ground, so that it gives cultural appropriate results, that kind of thing. So that's the other, so that it gives cultural appropriate results, that kind of thing. So that's the other reason why it's very important to have people from the global south doing the work to attend these kind of workshops and summits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think what happens the way we have been doing it is it's like the child's game of telephone, which it's an American thing, but the way that it's played. We'll have children sitting in a circle and one child will whisper something into the ear of the child next to them and then they whisper it to the next child, and the next child, and the next child and at the end the last child will say out loud to the group what they thought they heard. But usually what's happened. It's funny because usually what's happened is that whatever the first child said is completely different. Right, it's completely changed through that multiple translation. It's like what you were talking about in Mozambique, when you have to talk through an interpreter and you have to have some trust that what you're saying and the intention of what you're saying is actually being received on the other end.
Speaker 1:So we've been trying, I think, in a lot of cases in the global north, to go to these things and then come back to our partners in the global south and say here's what I learned at CAFO, here's the slide deck from CAFO, or here's a recording, even from CAFO.
Speaker 1:But I think that something might get lost in that translation and certainly a lot of what gets missed is that secret sauce that happens in between the workshops, where people just connect and relationships are formed. And so, you know, I want to kind of prod the global north a little bit to take more responsibility to make this happen, to see it as a really critical, important part of the work that we're doing is to make sure that folks like you are seated at the tables so that you can give that firsthand experience. So this is your first time in the United States, both of you and your first time attending CAFO Summit, and we travel in just a few days to Nashville, which is where Summit is going to be held this year, and I want to ask each of you to tell me what do you think it will be like and what are you hoping to get out of it.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll go first.
Speaker 3:My expectations at KFOR will be more of social work knowledge, because nobody is a reservoir of knowledge and as much as I'll be co-presenting, I'll as well want to reach out to other social workers from other countries to see how we all can talk to each other and build up that kind of relationship and discuss things around expertise and see how we can be able to come together and work together and see what skills probably I might be lacking and what I might have to share with them that they may be lacking as well. So these are my expectations just an open mind for that, david.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you always say, we are trying to get or trying to be part of the global table where we have a voice to discuss issues of childcare in the world, and I think that's the level we are moving towards currently. So, coming to KFU, I know we are very close to that level where we talk to global practitioners everywhere. So, because I'm sure that's the highest peak for now, that's the biggest forum, you know, that brings that kind of you know, that number of practitioners together in the world. So if we are here to be part of that, and not only as listeners but also people who are going to teach, I mean we are creating impact and I'm sure we are going to teach. I mean we are creating impact and I'm sure we are going to build connections, we are going to really collaborate and learn a lot from different, different people, which will really earn us a very big seat in that table.
Speaker 1:So I think you've spoken to this before, but I kind of want to hit the nail on this head again You're not just coming to attend and receive at Summit, you're coming to present. Why is that so significant?
Speaker 3:Well, I would say it's significant because we are gradually moving towards a global recognition, in the sense that what we do in our little corner is practically being recognized globally. And we are experiencing a shift because if we have people from the Global South coming to present at a very big summit like this and it's kind of getting some kind of significance and recognition globally, so I see that as something very significant and historic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really significant.
Speaker 2:As George said, sierra Leone is a very small country looking at population and even in size and all that, but it's like we from Sierra Leone coming to a conference like this, sierra Leone would be like a very big country in terms of care reform, because we are not looking at the size anymore, it's the knowledge, what you're going to give out, what you can offer to people.
Speaker 2:So, if we have people from over 150 countries coming together and listening to people from Sierra Leone, which means that's a very huge impact, not only for us as individuals, but for our country as well, because we are representing the entire nation of Sierra Leone, which I know the government might not be aware maybe they are but I'm sure, if they are aware, at the end of the day which I'm sure they are going to be aware of that, because we are going to push that forward to know that we have represented this nation in a forum like that, and that will be a very big boost for institutions that we are working for and even the children as well, because we know our names will be everywhere in terms of child care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as a matter of fact, george, this week we had a historic phone call with a child who came through the CRC and experienced they actually spent some time in the orphanage before the transition and they got to participate in a phone call this week. Do you want to speak a little bit to what that phone call was about?
Speaker 3:Well, like I have said, we are practically getting a global record measure. We've had the UN, the Office of High Commission on Human Rights. They wanted some participation of children who have lived in institutional care for some time and they wanted participants from other organisations and the child integration centre was among and we had one of our children, who is Abdullahi Dakwa, who participated in. From the feedback I got that his participation was very great. This is Joseph Boy of JSS also, but that's a huge blessing.
Speaker 1:So he's 12, 13 years old. Yeah, 12, 13.
Speaker 3:And he was assisted by two of our case managers, Deborah and Edward. That was great and that's a blessing kind of that's really exciting.
Speaker 1:So this 12 year old boy was able to speak into the UN commission on human rights about what children have a right to and how they're cared for. I think that's amazing that this child in this small country in West Africa is speaking to the UN. So, yeah, I think that's a good metaphor for sort of this moment, this significant moment you guys are talking about with getting on the global stage. So I don't want to like bang too hard on those of us in the global north. Bang too hard on those of us in the Global North, because I think Global North supporters have a lot to add and I think that we can often link our partners to resources and knowledge sometimes that they may have more difficulty accessing. But I think that if we flip the script and we have those in the Global South that are doing the actual work meeting the clients face-to-face you know, coaching orphanage directors through this process or whatever and have them lead the conversation and identify what their strengths are, what their needs are, what resources would most benefit them, I think our partnerships can be stronger and the work that we do can have a greater impact. So that's why I'm excited that the two of you are coming to CAFO and not just coming but presenting, because I think it's beginning to, in my mind, have you two take center stage so that I, as the Global North partner, can be a little bit more off to the side, which is where I think Global North partners belong. So I'm going to pause here.
Speaker 1:This episode of Optimistic Voices is a little bit different because we are recording this part. We have recorded this part on the Friday before we're going to travel from Virginia to Nashville and attend CAFO Summit, and what I want to do is do the end of our episode. We're going to record that at the end of CAFO, at the end of the week, next week, because I want to capture your reflections and your thoughts after you've been through all of it, so that our audience can sort of get your perspective on what it was really like. So, george and David, I want to thank you for your being here today and just say I'm excited to travel to Nashville. Any thoughts before we get ready to go and get on the plane?
Speaker 2:I think we are just excited.
Speaker 1:We want to be there to see what we can do and how we can raise the flag of our country.
Speaker 3:For some time now. We've seen careful summits on Zoom. I want to go there and be on the ground and see how it looks like, Feel it. I'm just excited about everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. Full disclosure we were so busy and so exhausted by the end of the week in Nashville that we didn't actually record the last part of this episode in Nashville, so we're doing it over Zoom several weeks after Summit. So you made it through your first CAFO Summit and I want to know know, just as you're reflecting on your time there, what are your impressions, george? Why don't you go first?
Speaker 3:All right, making it to CAFO first CAFO was a huge success and having us to present you know to global practitioners like us was another wonderful thing. You know, getting to that kind of a stage of recognition and you know showcase what we do in child welfare and providing services for families, it was great. So you know, when you meet so many people like doing what you do and some do more than what you do. So I would say holistically, it was a gathering of experts and people that know, people who want to know more and people who want to learn more. So it was a wonderful experience. In overall. It was a wonderful experience for people like me from the Global South.
Speaker 1:David, do you have anything to add?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, well for me, in relation to my work, I feel fulfilled to some extent. I'm confident that we are not alone in what we do. I've been part of this large global gathering of professionals, discussing, advocating and sharing experience, developing strategies on how to empower ourselves in terms of knowledge to improve the lives of the children and families we serve in our different regions. Overall, my time was spent. My time spent at the CAFE was meaningful and I was really impressed with the responses from organizations like Helping Children Worldwide and other individuals who poured their energy and resources to make sure they have people attend this all-important conference just to fulfill the work of God in that direction, that is, caring for children. So it was a meaningful experience overall.
Speaker 1:So this question is for either of you, just whoever wants to go first. What was the most surprising thing about Capo Summit for you?
Speaker 3:I would say the most surprising thing for me was, well, it was a surprise but looking at it from the other side of the coin, it could not be seen as a surprise To see people, let's say globally, move to just one place to share knowledge and ideas and see how we can all share resources together to see that we all work towards one goal, which is child-focused or providing services for children. That was kind of surprising for me. Thinking of how busy the world is, kind of surprising for me, you know, thinking of how busy the world is everybody's busy here and there and you know people make up time that week just for a kind of a very big event I was kind of surprised for me. That tells me like there's more to be done and people are willing to do more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how about you, David?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, similarly to what George was saying, like you said, having this large number of professionals coming together was a little bit of a surprise, not really. The surprising part is, in my opinion I was thinking most of these people go there to just travel and mingle, but realizing that people are really engaged in learning and sharing experience makes me a little bit surprised that people are doing this deliberately to make sure they serve children and families. But the most one I can say is in my opinion. Again, I was thinking we all have this one way or thought about caring for children, that is, um, preventing family separation and, you know, bringing families together. I realized that we all have um mostly opposite strategies, opposite thoughts.
Speaker 2:You know some people are caring off about family separation and want to bring families together and where some people are really thinking of children stayed in an institution and also care for them as well. So we have this mixed opinion. So it was a bit surprising for me to realize that even as we go as staff from CRC with this big opinion of transitioning institutions, but there are other institutions or other, you know, professionals who are also promoting opening systems. So it was a little bit of a surprise, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's one thing to George's point. It's one thing to hear that, like you know, a couple thousand people attend Capo Summit every year. But then to be there with.
Speaker 1:This year was Capo's 20th anniversary of Summit and they were saying that there were more than 2,500 people actually at Summit this year. It was the biggest audience they've ever had. Summit this year it was the biggest audience they've ever had. And then to realize that, like you're saying, david, these aren't people who just wanted to come to Nashville and hang out together. These are people who are dedicated to doing what they think God is calling them to do in caring for orphans and vulnerable children and broken families.
Speaker 1:And there are still. I mean, if you put 2,500 people in a space, they're all going to have different opinions about what's the best way to do that. I was surprised this year too, to hear there's still a lot of support for institutional care of children, which you know. Our audience will know that HCW and CRC are committed to the idea that children don't belong in institutions and that institutional settings aren't good for children, and we prioritize family for all children. So I think that surprised me too, and I've been going to summit, I've gone to more summits than the two of you.
Speaker 1:That surprised me this year too, and it just kind of underscored for me that we still have a lot of work to do and you guys from the global south, I think, still have a lot to teach those of us in the global north.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you want to comment.
Speaker 2:Sure, that's true. That's true. We have a lot of work and a lot of eye opening experience sharing to those who are in the global north. Looking at us as people who are in the global north, you know, looking at us as people who are in the forefront of this whole thing, you know working and doing the practical work. So I think it's a huge responsibility on us to really make sure people from the global north understand what it is for children to grow up within the family system. So I agree with you for children to grow up within the family system. So I agree with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I'm assuming that you both would, you know, like to attend Summit again. So I'm going to put that aside. We're just going to assume that that's true. Is there anyone else you think from the Global South it would be super important to encourage to attend CAFO Summit and I'm not talking just about your work colleagues and friends, because obviously you know you would want your work colleagues to attend Summit. But who else in child welfare and Sierra Leone in your country do you think would benefit from going to CAFO Summit and learning about what's happening in the world in the care of children?
Speaker 2:Well, to me, if we had to have people attend CAFO from this part of the world, it would be maybe other people. It would be mostly people from the government side who are working in ministries that care for children. Yes, because we have this global trend that we know as experts, now professionals in the field. We know what's going on on a daily basis, we are updated with information. But you will be disappointed to know that most of our government side, those who are working with the government, do not really have updated information, even within the country what is going on in the far side of provinces, but they don't know, let alone we talk about some other parts of the world. So, if we can, if I can, you know, suggest another category of people to attend CAFO. It will be from the government.
Speaker 3:Yes, laura. So to add up to that, I would say specifically, if we have, there are certain agencies or commissions that are, you know, centered around children. We have the National Commission for Children. I strongly recommend that they attend these kind of events, and the Ministry of Gender and Children as well. I strongly recommend that they attend these kind of events to see what's happening like globally, you know, to see what's happening globally, join the global trend, to see how things are going and how they can bring that to the Sierra Leonean culture and context, to see how we all can work towards providing services for children, because it's about the knowledge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be amazing. You know, when we talk about specifically the work, david, your department, the transition coaching and mentoring department does, there are a lot of stakeholders and because there are a lot of stakeholders involved, there are a lot of places where you know if the stakeholders don't have the knowledge they don't understand, then you know the transition can get derailed, then it can fail and the burden all falls on you to educate all of those stakeholders. But if somehow some of those stakeholders in government, in the ministries, like you're saying, could, you know, attend summit, then they would know that that's not all just coming from you. That's what the world is talking about, that's what everyone in the global sector is talking about, and that would be really game changing, I think.
Speaker 2:Sure Sure.
Speaker 1:So what did you take home with you to CRC, like, what were the big ideas? What comes next for you in your work, now that you got a CAFO summit under your belt? How do you think this is going to impact your daily work and your goals for the future, for what you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, first of all, it was really important, like we've always said, for us to be at this conference, because it's a reaffirm that we are not alone in what we do and it's a confidence, because looking at or seeing this huge crowd of people makes us know that we are really not alone.
Speaker 2:A lot of people are interested in a similar thing we are doing and that I learned a lot, you know, from best practices to really care for children in my own, you know, in my own area, like the transition stuff, stuff, and I listened to a lot of people who shared experience from how they do their work in different countries and I realized that, oh yes, even though we have a knowledge base or we have, we've added something to that. I've added something to that I will bring back to clients and, you know, lead organizations that they can really understand that the work we are doing is not only for Sierra Leone, it's not only for Africa, but it's really a global stuff. So those experiences, I think I will have to share that with whosoever I meet in my clients, my lead organizations. I have to share those experiences. We don't do them Specifically, I really cannot point them out correctly, but I have a lot of notes that I took that I think are very important to work and we can be using that on a daily basis. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's great.
Speaker 3:How about you, george?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so there are so many things we have learned on Careful Ground and around that, but some of the things I probably want to share you know it's about because, yeah, we'd like to to share it's about how we can um, strengthen um.
Speaker 3:You know the leadership and you know, especially from my department and coming coming from the leadership of um, the entire crc coming down to my department. And secondly, it's because I work closely with the Ministry of Gender and Children and how we can be able to as well share this with them, because the work we do is not a one-person work, because it takes teamwork and effort and energy, and some of the things that I just where I was reassured of was that the little steps we take, the small movements we make, really did matter, because, from what I overheard from other experts and other people was that you know there are steps in doing all of what we do, and so these are things I would like to share, especially from my department, and how we can work as well with the Ministry of Gender and the local FSU to see how we can all work together to provide services for our children and families.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think one of the things that I always take away from CAFO Summit the expertise and the sessions you attend and the things you learn are really valuable. But the magic is in the collaboration. It's in the bringing together of people with expertise and ideas and the energy and compassion and commitment that we all have to providing a better future for the children in our different contexts. And I think that is the power, is recognizing that we're stronger together, that when we work together with the government, with the ministries, with each other, with other organizations, as experts, that when we come together that's when we're really going to change things, that's really when we're going to move into a brighter future. So one thing we know is coming really soon in the future is Helping Children Worldwide's Annual Policy Conference. Oh shoot, just lost them. I'm going to keep recording this part and hopefully they'll be able to come back. So, david, are you back? Yes, yes sorry.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, that's okay. I'll just restart this question and then we only have two more questions left and Melody will cut this part out. So one thing we know that's coming in the really near future is HCW's annual policy conference, which is called Rising Tides. David, as the Global South Transition Expert at the Child Integration Center, is co-hosting the conference with me, which will be in February of next year, and we're going to convene a group on the topic of how we can expand and broaden the impact of the transition support of moving orphanages from a residential model to family care models, orphanages from a residential model to family care models.
Speaker 1:And it's our goal that organizations like HCW and the Global North people like me will support and scholarship transition experts from the Global South like David to be able to come to Rising Tides in person in Washington DC. And we want at least 50% of the participants at Rising Tides to be those with direct experience in supporting orphanage transition, not so that they can be trained. That's not the intention of Rising Tides. I'm not training people in the Global South how to transition orphanages, but rather to bring those with direct experience, knowledge, expertise in transition work, the people actually doing that work, into the same room together. David, can you say a little bit about why it's so important to do this and what would you like to tell people about why they should attend or why they should help others to attend?
Speaker 2:Well, in the first place, as you said, it's really important for people from the global south to attend because, as you said, they have direct experience in transition support and can provide knowledge and expertise to broaden the global impact of transition. And also it's really important again because attending or supporting someone to attend is crucial for fostering a diverse exchange of ideas and ensuring that those with fostering experience in transition support, particularly from the Global South, have a platform to share their expertise, help to enrich the global dialogue and solutions around transition support. So it's really important for organizations to support organizations to support people from the global south so that they can attend this rising tide workshop in Washington.
Speaker 1:That's great, and I'm just going to do a shameless plug for HCW's rising tides. If you're an organization that believes, as we do, that those in the global south have to be at these tables, have to be in these rooms and at these conversations, as you know, travel from the global south to the global north is not easy and it's not inexpensive. Hcw is setting up a scholarship fund. If you want to contribute to that scholarship fund and help an expert like David travel from the Global South to rising tides in February of 2025, please reach out, email me, reach out to HCW and we'll help you figure out how you can donate to this really important scholarship opportunity. So I have one last question. This is the last question that we ask all of our guests and that is just really briefly. What keeps you hopeful about the future in your work?
Speaker 3:Yeah, one thing that keeps me hopeful about the future and you know most especially the work we do is with people around the world that are willing to put in their best energy and support and commitment to see that every child gets a love in their family, to see that every child gets a loving family. That is one thing that keeps me hopeful and keeps me going, and you know we may want to, around the world, make sure that we have every child in a safe and loving family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, David.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'm really hopeful, you know, looking at different approaches and our efforts that we've adopted over time and we are still learning to promote the best practices for serving children, um, in this part of the world and even some other parts, makes me really hopeful that someday or very soon we'll have a farm grip on the things that will really maintain families and prevent family separation. Because as we move along, we know there are people who are like game changers, people who influence things and as we preach our best practices, I am sure one day it will really sink deep down into their hearts and they can change the way we care for children. So that's my hope for what we do currently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we've talked a lot about, obviously, about CAFO, and I just want to, before I wrap up, just want to thank the Christian Alliance for Orphans for having their annual summit, for convening this important event every year. We think that our collaboration, our involvement at CAPO has been really enriching in a lot of ways, and so I just want to say thank you to CAPO and then just end by saying that we're always grateful when you tune into Optimistic Voices. We're thankful that you choose to listen to us. We believe that it is a big and messy and difficult world out there and there are a lot of challenges that particularly these guys face in their work in the global South, and there is no shortage of need and challenge and difficulty in the work that they do. But we also believe that with radical courage and radical collaboration together we really can change the world. So thanks, guys, for being on this episode with us and thanks for making the trip.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you and bye, bye, thank you.
