Optimistic Voices
Vital voices in the fields of global health, global child welfare reform and family separation, and those intent on conducting ethical missions in low resource communities and developing nations. Join our hosts as they engage in conversations with diverse guests from across the globe, sharing optimistic views, experiences, and suggestions for better and best practices as they discuss these difficult topics.
Optimistic Voices
A Return to African Ideals: Revolutionizing Child Welfare in Sierra Leone
Why do African social workers believe that it is essential that local governments, foreign donors, and parents understand that children living in orphanages should be returned to family homes? Join us as we explore the profound journey and epic revelations of two social workers devoting their careers to making this change across the continent of Africa, starting with orphanages in their own country. David Musa and Rosamund Palmer from the Child Reintegration Center (CRC) in Bo, Sierra Leone discuss the experience of change, and the unexpected areas of resistance, and what they find is behind it. Discover the intricacies of how the CRC is reshaping child care by helping others do what the CRC did, moving away from institutional settings to nurturing family-based environments. David and Rosamund share their experiences training social workers, engaging orphanage directors, and advocating for an attachment-focused approach that fosters strong bonds with children returning to family homes.
Our episode delves into the pivotal role of the Transition Coaching and Mentoring Department (TCM) at CRC. Learn about the power of mass media campaigns that educate communities on the benefits of family care and the harm caused by orphanages. Hear about the unique training workshop for media personnel that ensures accurate reporting on family reunification and child welfare, and why regular follow-ups, training, and mentorship are essential for organizations in transition. This discussion underscores the importance of relationship-building and trust in achieving successful transitions from orphanages to family homes.
Finally, we address the significant challenges faced in transitioning from residential care institutions to family-centered care models, particularly in Sierra Leone. David and Rosamund discuss their strategy of local engagement to garner national government support and the CRC’s own discovery of how this change permits organizations to exponentially grow their impact. CRC supported 40 children in residential care, and for the same budget, are now able to support nearly 1600 children by strengthening 450 families. We call on American donors to rethink their contributions to orphanages and instead support family-based programs. Join us as we envision an orphanage-free Sierra Leone within five years and celebrate the optimism from institutions ready to adopt best practices for the betterment of children's lives.
Helpingchildrenworldwide.org
Thank you for watching. Welcome back to the Optimistic Voices podcast. I'm Laura Horvath and I'll be your host for this episode. This episode is a special one because I'm not recording this at my desk in Virginia. I'm actually in Bow, sierra Leone, with two members of the Child Reintegration Center staff in charge of transition support services for the CRC, david Moussa and Rosamund Palmer. Before we meet our guests, I'd like to just explain a bit about our topic. What is transition support services? Why does it matter?
Speaker 1:As our regular listeners know, we're engaged in work that supports local leaders to find ways to ensure that every vulnerable child has a safe, permanent and loving family in which to grow up. That includes direct reintegration of children from the street or institutions back into families in the community In organizations like the Child Reintegration Center or CRC in Bo, sierra Leone. That also includes transition support services. Transition experts, like the ones you'll meet today, help the leadership and staff of residential programs like orphanages, children's homes and children's villages to learn how to shift their model of care from institutional settings to family-based settings. If you're a regular listener, you'll know that HCW and our partners promote the idea that all children not only deserve and have the right to grow up in a family. They also need to grow up in a family if they're going to thrive. In fact, we do a number of episodes on this topic and I invite you to read back through our episodes and find those and listen to those.
Speaker 1:But today we're going to focus on transition. Transition experts like David and Rosemond help these institutional programs learn how to shift their model of care from institutional settings to family-based settings. But why would an orphanage need help to transition their model of care? As you're about to hear, transition is a very complicated process and, because there are children involved, it's really important to get it right. Our guests today, david Moussa and Rosamund Palmer, are the entire transition support team at the CRC. David, the senior consultant for the transition coaching and mentoring department, has been with the CRC since the days when it was an orphanage and he participated in the process of transitioning the model there, so he has firsthand experience living through the transformation of a residential program to one that is completely family-based. Now Roseman joined the TCM team in 2022, and she serves as the reintegration specialist. Together, david and Roseman work with organizations through the transition process, but they do a lot of other things as well. Hi, rosamund, welcome to the show, hi, laura. Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1:Rosamund, can you provide us with an overview of the kinds of activities that the TCM is engaged with in different child welfare and child protection agencies in Sierra Leone welfare?
Speaker 2:and child protection agencies in Sierra Leone. Yeah well, the TCM is engaged in so many activities and these are some of our activities, like the training. We offer training for social workers on different topics such as family reunification, attachment theories, child status index, transition roadmap, transition of framework to moving towards family solution. And then we have one-on-one engagement with, often, directors and managers and different stakeholders, including Ministry of Gender and Children's Affairs. We also do engagement with community stakeholders in collaboration with the Ministry of Gender and Social Welfare. Follow-up calls and visits are made to our clients in legal organizations. We disseminate and advocate on family-based care programs on radio and television. We also collect data on institutional. We also collect data on residential institutional care, especially on reunification of children into families.
Speaker 1:So some of the workshops that you mentioned just now can you just help our listeners understand, like, for example, what is attachment workshop? What is that for?
Speaker 2:Well, the attachments workshop for social workers or ministry workers is to build the bond or relationship between the children in the orphanages and the social workers. So in the attachments here we have a long list of topics. We have topics like trauma, trauma-informed care, we have topics like attunement, and all of these topics will help social workers to bond and build long-lasting and strong relationship with the children they are working with.
Speaker 1:And when children go home, does the attachment theory workshop also help their caregivers as they're receiving them?
Speaker 2:Yes, normally we do a training workshop for them. So when we train these social workers to go to their institution and do it with their colleague staff and also train the parents that they are working with, like families of the children living in the orphanage, so when they are reunified in the orphanage, their parents too have the opportunity to go through this attachment theory, so it will help them build the relationship with the children.
Speaker 1:And why is that? Either one of you can answer this question. Why is it important or necessary for attachment to be built between a caregiver and a child that's been living in an orphanage?
Speaker 2:There are children living in an orphanage. For me, they are being used to a routine lifestyle, so, like you wake up in the morning, you do all your activities. They are time bound. So when you come back to the home, like with your families or the caregiver, it is important for the caregivers to build a relationship with these children so that they will help to bring them closer, to bring them closer to themselves and learn more of the things that the children didn't have the opportunity to learn wise, in the orphanage.
Speaker 1:All right, david, can you talk a little bit? Rosamund mentioned clients when she talked just now, but I know that you work with contacts, leads and clients. Can you talk a little bit about what those are and how you work with each type?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so these are the categories of organizations that we work with at the TCM department Lead, the contact and the client. Now I'll just give currently what our status with the lead and client and contact. We have eight clients for now and 24 leads and 51 contacts, and it's a total of 83 institutions that we are working with. So I'll start with the clients, and these are institutions that have signed an MOU with the TCM department of the CRC so that we can provide them trainings and the resources and other support coaching and mentoring through their transition work and mostly these are institutions that are already in transition.
Speaker 3:They are doing it gradually and they have children that they reunified on a monthly or quarterly basis and we get information from them as well, because they have already signed that MOU with us and we also have the leads.
Speaker 3:These are institutions that we have come in contact with and they have not really signed an MOU, but we are working closely with them as well in providing all the other necessary supports that they need from the TCM. Of course, the contacts some are really not working directly with children, but they are somehow child-related institutions, and these are institutions that we've only met once or twice and we hope once we work with them, they can graduate to a different level as we move along. So basically, this is how we work with the three categories of institutions that we have.
Speaker 1:Great Think of a typical client that you're working with. Can you talk a little bit about the kinds of interactions that you have with them, and you can both answer if you'd like.
Speaker 3:Typically for a client, first of all, we need to build a relationship. Typically for a client, first of all, we need to build a relationship. We build a relationship and try to build trust between the client and the TCM department, because in transition we know how difficult it is to really grab the concept and really fall into that decision to transition institution. So we have to build a very strong relationship with them, especially the stakeholders we have. Of course, we have these level of stakeholders that we work with in institutions. We can categorize them as well, based on our learning experience, that we have stakeholders who are maybe the directors. We have the owners and the funding agencies and these are strong pillars of any institution. So when you want to work with them to transition the institution, you have to have a great influence over these people. So we try to build that kind of relationship between these people, because we call them buy-ins as well. So we create a relationship so that they will trust what we are doing and it is the right thing that we are doing.
Speaker 3:So, we work with them in that direction. At the end of the day, once they are influenced and they see that transition is possible and it is in the best interest of the children and families that we work with, that becomes easier for them to really influence their institutions to be transitioned.
Speaker 3:So typically we have this relationship and we do follow-up visits and we do follow-up calls and we provide resources and training when needed and at some point point one-on-one coaching with the directors and also the social workers. So typically this is how we operate and it's mostly on a monthly basis in terms of calls and visits can be done based on how the working relationship with the institution is. Visits can be done regularly. It's not really scheduled visits but as demands, we do our visits when necessary.
Speaker 1:Do organizations, directors or others on their staff or stakeholders, as you're saying, as you're mentioning? Do they ever resist the idea of transition and, if so, what do you do about that?
Speaker 3:People become resistant to change when they have limited information about what that change is all about. So it is definitely that most directors or leaders that we meet, they become resistant to this chain that we are talking about because they have limited information. And so what we do? We try to provide enough information on what we are doing, evidence-based information from research, and we share the CRC story, and our successful CRC is today because of one decision that we took to transition our institution to a family-based care program. And so, with all those information that we provide, we see the resistance becomes softer as we move along. And so, yes, like you rightly asked, they become resistant, directors become resistant, but we keep on pressing because we don't want to step back and because they are resistant to that change.
Speaker 3:So we keep on pressing and providing the information that is needed, targeting the right people in those institutions to see that they are really influenced and they see the need for children to be unified with their families, because we know it is the best practice for children and the initial household, for communities and initial household.
Speaker 1:It sounds like CRC's transition department has kind of a two-prong approach where you share research about how children do better in family-centered institutions, but then you also share the success story of the CRC. You were here, david, when it was an orphanage for a while and then, when the decision was made to transition the orphanage, you were not on board with it at first, but then you gradually came around and became on board and now CRC is so successful as a family-based organization. Do you find that lived experience, the fact that you know firsthand what it was like as an orphanage and now what it's like now and you can share that with other organizations?
Speaker 3:do you find that story helps break down the resistance? Yes, that's a very important piece because whenever we move out to meet institutions, that's the first thing that we do, because those are the questions that mostly come out why are you bringing these ideas? How can you convince us that this is the right thing? So sharing the story of the CRC is a very big conviction that transition is possible and it is important. And there is a very big benefit that you see behind the closed door and I'll share. I always share my own experience and when the idea first came, I know that the CRC is going to be transformed into a different program or a different model of care.
Speaker 3:I became. I was like what is this again? We are okay and the children are okay and everything is okay, and why are we jumping into something new? So I had that idea and later on it was changed. So whenever I share that sort of idea to people, you know, because they find the same, they find themselves in the same situation. So when I share my own experience, they say oh yes, this is possible and this is right. So that story of the CRC is playing a very great role in our work Because no matter how you share experience from different places, if you don't have a practical experience from the ground, especially in Sierra Leone, you know they will always tell you it is possible in other countries, but here Sierra Leone is different. But if I tell you this happens in Sierra Leone, at CRC and I was part of it and now I'm in a different program I think it's a very good piece that really pushed the work of the TCM forward.
Speaker 1:Rosamund, you joined the CRC after the transition. What was it that interested you about working at CRC and the way that their program is focused on families and children?
Speaker 2:When I had the CRC have transitioned their model of care to that of family-based care, I felt the need to come and work with children living in new families. Yes, and I know how important it is for children to grow up in families, and I know how important it is for children to grow up in families and I know how that will help them grow into better people in the society. So I wanted to be part of the change. I had that urge to help other people understand the need for children growing in families and how to help other society, how to help stakeholders in the society and other members of the society and including directors of orphanages sharing our CRC stories, our CRC successes and how working with children and their families can be good and how it's the best practice for children to try.
Speaker 1:All right. So you, as the Transition Coaching and Mentoring Department, you work directly with orphanages and organizations to transition their model of care. That's direct services and that makes sense. But you also do a lot of work, as you said, on the radio and on TV, educating and advocating a specific message about children belonging and families. And I wondered why is that an important part of your work? Why is it important for just everyday people listening to the radio to know, to understand why children don't belong in orphanages and they need to be in families? Why do government and legal and community leaders need to know this message? Why is it important to focus some of your work on education and advocacy?
Speaker 3:We always say when we know better, we do better. You know, communities or families send their children to orphanages because they think it's the best place for their children to go, because of the opportunities, and it is because they lack the information of how dangerous it is at the end of the day, you know on their children and their families and that's why they are sending them out. So I think the information on radio and TV is really very important because we need to share. What is it like when you send a child into a family, into a residential care institution? How are you expecting your child to grow and become somebody? At the end of the day? You know, all those pieces need to go back to the people in the communities far and wide, and as the TCM or CRC, we have limited access to information sharing.
Speaker 3:I say, when we go out we speak to a very small number of people, small groups of people, institutions and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3:But this message really needs to go down to the last person in those communities and the only way to do that is to have a mass media information sharing. So that's why we go on TV, we go on radio, so that people who we cannot meet one-on-one, who cannot talk to one-on-one, can listen to this radio and see on television and learn more about the best practices for children and learn more the importance of them having their children going with them in their families and learn more about the effect of sending children to families. So once they've learned through this media or the information sharing medium that we use, I think communities will come together and say okay, instead of sending our children to families, to residential care institutions, why not form a community group that will take care of our children, especially those who maybe are orphans now, or people who are vulnerable families, so they can develop their own idea of how to raise their own children, instead of thinking of orphanage as the best place.
Speaker 3:So that's why the CRCTCM is really focused on disseminating information through TV and radio because, as I think, is one of the key elements of our work you know presently.
Speaker 1:You did a workshop here at CRC once and you invited just press people, just people in media. Can you explain why you did that and why that was important?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like I said earlier, now, even if the CRC is on the media, on TV or radio we cannot be there at all times to really pass on the information to the rest of the country and the communities.
Speaker 3:And so we need the media, we need people from the media to continuously send out this information.
Speaker 3:And so, because we want the right information, because there are certain things about our work that needs to be sent out, you know probably, if we go on radio, we know technically what kind of message that we can send about family reunification, about orphanages, about best practices for children. We know all those information, but basically the media people do not understand to such an extent and we don't want a different message to go out. So we decided to bring them together and teach them this basic information that we want them to send out to the people so that they can send the right information. That's why we brought them together at some point and just took them through the family identification model how important it is for children to grow up within the family system and how communities should really come together and see how they can support themselves instead of sending their children to families. So we train them and we encourage them to be sending out this information frequently so that the community can learn from what they see.
Speaker 1:I think this is really unique. I've not seen that done in many places around the world, and what I like about it is that you sort of gave them the foundation that children do better in families, so that any story that any one of those media people then does about vulnerable children, they will have that as a resource, kind of as a background to say, you know, if they do a story, for example, on street children, they can talk about how these street children are suffering partly because they're away from their family, and I think that's a really creative way to arm the media with the kind of messaging you want them to promote, even when they're not telling a story specifically about CRC and the work of TCM.
Speaker 1:So transition support services like those you offer are direct services that are provided to organizations that want to change. You're not a granting organization. You don't provide funding for transition, so that's not a service that comes from TCM and that's true of transition support services all over the world but you do provide a valuable resource to those who really want to change. Can you talk about the kinds of resources you provide?
Speaker 2:We provide training resources for those organizations that want to change, and then we provide constant coaching and mentoring. We also do visits and follow-up calls. We engage the directors on one-on-one discussion programs and we also offer trainings to their social workers that they in turn will do for their caregivers, so that when these children return to their families they'll know how to bond well. They'll also know how to collect information on the needs of these children and monitor it over time why is it so important to have that regular calling and visiting?
Speaker 1:is that part of the relationship piece that you're talking about?
Speaker 3:Yes, that's part of the relationship Because, like I said earlier, we want to build that trust. Because when we move up to these institutions, most of the time the CEOs are just trying to push our own way. They don't look at at the other way. They just see that this is just a CRC activity and they just want to accomplish their activities and maybe go away. So if we like visit you just once or twice and you have that in mind and we just forget about you for a long period of time, I think they will conclude that, oh, this is right, what we are thinking is right. They just want to get through the activities and forget about it. So we try to build that constant relationship to keep reminding you that, okay, this is our goal, this is what we want at the end of the day. So we want to stay with you until you really succeed in what we are thinking is the best way, is the best practice for children.
Speaker 1:So that's why we keep the constant relationship and communication with these institutions so that they will not lose sight of us, and we cannot lose sight of them as well resource that you provide, as the entire TCM department at CRC, is your level of expertise, your commitment to this particular cause of getting kids into families and out of institutional settings and your knowledge about best practices. And I think that can't be discounted, and I know that that's transmitted through the workshops and the trainings, rosemond, that you're talking about, but also through these just conversations that you're having with these orphanage directors, with these social workers, with these stakeholders who probably mostly genuinely want what's best for the kids they're trying to take care of and they don't have that best practice knowledge that you have, and so that ongoing relationship and just helping people learn and walking on this journey with them is really important. David, you recently attended a training in Uganda around transition support. Can you share what that training was and some of the key things that you took away from that training?
Speaker 3:Yes, the training was all about the transition framework tool. Yes, the training was all about the transition framework tool and this is a very important tool that guides institutions that want to really go into transition or trying to transition their model of care. It's a very complex tool but somehow easier if you go through it. It is a guide for me and, from what I learned, it is a guide towards the transition work. It's not like a holistic structure or strategy to take you through and get the work done 100%. It's just a guide that can see you through and you can go into it and see how you can make use of what is in there and it will guide you through the process.
Speaker 3:What I learned again from this tool is a tool that can be bring it down to your own context. It's not something that is a global, fixed tool. You can modify it to fit your own context and see what is in there that you can use. And secondly, from the training, we learned that, of course, transition is possible, but it takes time and there are key things that you need to employ to help you go through the transition process. It's actually a training trainer and we are supposed to come down to our countries and train the government and other institutions on how to use this tool, that tool.
Speaker 3:there's a piece of that tool that is very key that if you go through it, it will help to convince you that transition is possible. That is one, and if you want to create a bigger impact in society, family-based care program could be the best, because you are limited when you are operating a residential care institution in terms of finances. If you look at how much you spend on children living in institutions compared to what you will spend on children in families, you see that your impact in operating a residential care will be very small. But looking at what you will spend and try to spend it out there to families, you create a bigger impact in your society.
Speaker 3:And so that is one big advantage that the tool has, because it teaches you, it tells you how to calculate your cost and your cost in running the RCI and that of the family-based care, and it also guides you when you want to transition and what you expect in terms of costs. You know talking about the spike costs. You know it tells you the spike costs at that period. You know a very short period of time when you want to transition, how expensive it will become and later how your expenses will really go down, down, down when you finally reunify children back in their families. So we learned a lot from that training.
Speaker 3:I will share a lot of experience from other practitioners in different, different countries and you know what I learned from that training, again with the discussion and conversation that we have, is like Sierra Leone, we are a little bit behind, but I always say it is better to start now than a week later. So I always think that we are not late. If we are not even too late, we are starting at the right time, because now is the right time to start the transition work compared to other institutions from different parts of Africa. And so I think we are moving because for the last three years we have been moving up, we are not stuck and we are improving and we have different ideas and activities and you know connections every year and we are engaging institutions every year. We are building our capacities every year, so which means we are progressing gradually and we'll get there at some point.
Speaker 1:I want to just go back and touch on a couple of things that you said just now. The tool was developed by the Better Care Network and the training was provided, I think, by Better Care Network and Changing the Way we. Care.
Speaker 1:And it brought together 20-something transitioning experts together from all over the continent of Africa to receive the training and this tool, but also to work and collaborate together. And you spoke I'm glad you mentioned this that you said that Sierra Leone is behind. I think if you do look at how transition is working across the world, east Africa is a little bit ahead. There was several years ago Rwanda transitioned most of its RCIs or residential care institutions, also known as orphanages. Kenya is in the process of a national push to transition all of its orphanages. There's been, I think, a lot more support in East Africa for transition up until now, and our audience may not know this, but the CRC's transition department is the only transition support services department in all of Sierra Leone and one of only how many in West Africa is it? Two or three, just two just two.
Speaker 1:So and and the TCM at CRC obviously has clients in Sierra Leone but is also helping to support transitions in other countries Mozambique, nigeria and Liberia. Yeah, so the reach of TCM is pretty broad and even though the team is very small and I think it's really impressive to be on the very leading edge of transition support services on the west Coast of Africa. We know there's been, like I say, a lot of support for transition services in East Africa for several years now, but you are the leading edge in West Africa.
Speaker 3:And I even during our conversation. I even heard from some colleagues that you know, their government is providing some kind of support to really pilot some of this project to see how it works. So which means the government is deeply involved now in supporting them. And I guess we'll get to that point later, you know, when Sierra Leone also will see how the government will support the work of transition.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really good point. Rwanda did a national transition with the support of their government. Kenya is engaged right now in a national transition with the support of the government. That's not the case currently in Sierra Leone, although I think there are people in the Sierra Leone government that are warm to the idea of transition of orphanages, and so that has led the CRC to join a coalition on care reform on a national level. Do you want to talk about what that coalition is and what its goals are?
Speaker 3:The coalition, the CRC has formed a coalition to really push forward, especially towards the government, so that we can influence the work of transition here in Sierra Leone. And it's really important because we always say when you want to work fast, you go alone, but when you want to go far, you go together. So that's why we are bringing organizations together. We've already brought four, three organizations, including CRC4.
Speaker 3:You made it yes. So that's why we are bringing we have added three organizations to the CRC to really push the work of transition forward. So these four members are the Child and Family Permanency Services and World Hope International and Princess Promise. Of course, crc are inclusive, so these four organizations are really working hard to see how we can penetrate the government and to see how we can influence them to support the transition work in Sierra Leone. And the coalition is really open to other institutions that we can form and they can come in as linkage groups to really support the work, because we want to really move together as a formidable force, because when other institutions see that two or more organizations have come together to really achieve one goal, they will see that it's something very important, rather than just one person moving forward. So it's really important and that is collaboration and partnership. So that's what CRC is currently doing under the coalition.
Speaker 1:I think that government engagement piece is really important and for the government to know that, even though, I mean, this coalition is not going to be providing funding, but it provides expertise and best practice and knowledge, it can provide the government with language to develop policies around the best care for children and, like you say, all of these trainings that you already do could be done, you know, across the entire country, and so I think that's really important. The coalition is just getting started, but it's my prayer that it will be successful, as it moves forward.
Speaker 3:Yeah, had at CCMC has worked very hard to really move up with the transition work from the local level, you know, from the regional level, community level, and so it's like we are using the bottom top approach moving towards the higher level, that is, the national government level, because we know, at the end of the day, the government has a very big stake in all these taking decisions on residential institutions, orphanages you know to transition their institutions and they can enact laws and they can, you know, influence a lot of things that will really push this change.
Speaker 3:So we have done a lot from the ground level. That's why we are now moving towards the national level, you know, so that our work can be seen from the the top level, that it is clear that we have done the speed work from there instead of starting from the top, although it is possible. But we we think starting from the top in our country will be very difficult, because you have to convince the government about what you've done or what you are doing that will lead to success, and so we have already gone through a lot that will really convince them that we are moving towards success.
Speaker 1:I know a lot of the work that you've done in relationship building has been to meet with the district ministers at that level and kind of work your way then up to the higher levels in the ministry. And I think that's important, that grassroots from the bottom up, from the people actually doing the work up to the top. I think that is very important. What are the biggest challenges or barriers that you face in your work to coach orphanages and RCIs residential peer institutions to do this transition and what is needed to overcome these barriers?
Speaker 3:I can say some and maybe you can comment. Well, like I earlier said, resistance is one of the biggest challenge because people, especially here in this country, have seen orphanages or residential care institutions as a money-making institution in most cases, because they think the more children they have in their care, the more money they get from donors from abroad and elsewhere.
Speaker 3:So now facing them with a different idea that, oh, you need to change your practice and we need to look at what is best for the children instead of what is best for you.
Speaker 3:So that has a different dimension, that has a different thought in their mind. So they feel resistant to those changes and we have to really provide enough evidence, as we spoke earlier, and enough information, enough discussion and engagement several engagements to see that they really see the need for transition. So that's a very big challenge that we face in our work. And well, the other is movement, especially getting through their activities and what they do, you know, getting information from them so that we can see how we can help them. And that's a very big challenge as well, because people tend to close in their information system yeah, be private, and so it's become difficult a little bit to know how you can coach them, how you can guide them so that they can really see what is best for their operations. So if they keep their information secret we just bring what we have it's really difficult to really see that they are using it or they are not using it. So those kind of movement between us for now is really a difficult one.
Speaker 1:I guess that's why that trusting relationship is so important. Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:So I don't know if you have any challenges.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like some organizations close their doors, Like they don't want us to penetrate to know what they are doing. So that's why it's important for us to work with the ministry. So sometimes we get through this organization through the ministry. Yes, the ministry will lead us to them and maybe because of the presence of the director of Ministry of Gender and Children's Affairs, they will be left with no choice but to give us scanty information about what they are doing. So these are some of our challenges. And also some organizations see us as just a small unit trying to push our way. Yeah, so the backing of the government is another thing. So if we have that strong backing from the government, I think these organizations will be open up to us and they will see us as one that is trying to complement the efforts of government within the region.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I think that's a recent, although we have been doing that moving with the government but in most cases initially we are moving alone. I think that's a recent strategy that we use and we saw it working well this year when we went to the north to do some mapping and visitations. We deliberately moved with the government officials to every institution that we go. They were not left out. We in fact met the district ministry and explained our mission and they gave us an official.
Speaker 3:So I'll just give an example of two of the institutions that we met with One in the Bombali district we went there. Luckily we were there with the ministry representative, and the director of that institution refused to really come to that meeting and they were informed before even we went to the place. And so the ministry official was really annoyed because I think he said this is the second or third time they have invited that director of that institution to even the ministry and she is not really responding to the invitation. At some point she even sent money just for her not to really attend. So which means there's something going on in that institution that the government need to investigate, and he made that statement right in front of the other staff who were there and he was very annoyed.
Speaker 3:So I see that if there is anything that is going to be on that from that institution, it's because of the work of the CRC Because, honestly, the government is limited I don't know if in terms of resources or whatever but in terms of moving up to these institutions and getting information on a regular basis. So when we move there with them, it's an opportunity for them to really see what is going on and sometimes get some information. So the man promised the ministry official really promised that they are going to investigate the institution and see what is going on there, that they are hiding from the ministry and other institutions. And even when we went far in the other part of the district, we also contacted the ministry and they took us to one of the orphanages. You know that orphanage is not something really to talk about. It's really deplorable. And.
Speaker 3:I think that's the first time they have the idea of how the orphanages are operating and how children are living in that orphanage, and so at the end of the day, we told them that these are the things we are fighting against, these are the things we are trying to prevent. You know, children are suffering in these places and we think it's the best place for them, you know, to stay. So the man was really open up to say, not that we are not aware of some of these things, but we have limited resources and we can't even push because we don't have the support from the national level right down to really push. You know these things.
Speaker 2:so I think that strategy is really working now moving with the government and see how we can penetrate these institutions yes, so, as david was saying I think it's in the southern region we wanted to have an engagement with an organization. The donors had to stop the social workers from participating in our activities and we even tried to call to do follow-up because the director there is my friend. We went to the same university. She was plain to tell me that she's only giving us information because she thinks I'm her friend. But apart from that, they're having strict warning from their donors not to allow any other institution to come there to even penetrate or even try to do training with them. So their doors are just closed to every other person outside. Yes, so that was one of the reasons why we started moving with government officials. So when, once we are moving with these government officials, they will not close their doors, they don't open the door.
Speaker 2:They open their doors and give us information.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really important part to mention to our audience about transition support, and that one of the biggest barriers isn't happening here locally. It's actually the stakeholder that's in the West that's sending the money, and often those stakeholders don't know the best practice, they don't know the research. In their minds they're thinking this child is an orphan, meaning they have no one to care for them and so an orphanage is where they belong. But what we know those of us you two seated before me and myself we know that most of the children who are labeled as orphans are not actually orphans. They actually probably have at least one parent and they certainly have extended family that could possibly take them in if they had the means to do that, if they had the support to do that things and understood that there was a way, like CRC has found, to care for children that's better for children, that helps more children.
Speaker 1:In the CRC when it was an orphanage there were 40 children living in this building and that was maximum capacity. Like you say, you couldn't take any more children in. Now the CRC provides support to almost 1600 children in over 450 families and those children are living with their families and it's about the same amount of money. The budget has not changed all that much except to kind of grow with cost of living it's. You can help so many more people with this model and I know, because I am an American, americans love the idea that their dollar will go far Right. Um, and so I think this the work that you're doing, as you say, from the ground up, if I can use this podcast episode to carry your message from the ground, where the work is actually happening, where you're transitioning orphanages back to an American audience, audience and they can hear from you that it works in Africa in Sierra.
Speaker 1:Leone.
Speaker 1:Hopefully that will motivate more donors to stop supporting orphanages and to start supporting transition of orphanages and to start supporting family-based care. One of the things we know that you all might not know is that Faith to Action did a Barna research study a couple of years ago to look at how much money is sent from US Christian donors to support orphanages in the world, anywhere in the world and it's $2.5 billion a year that Christians from the United States are sending to orphanages because they don't know that orphanages are not a good place for kids. So imagine if we could get those donors to send that $2.5 billion a year to programs like the CRC, who are reintegrating children and supporting and strengthening families, who are teaching other organizations to do that same work how many more transitions could happen, how many more children could go home forever.
Speaker 3:And, interestingly, all the examples that we've given here are foreign donors, the directors that we have. Yeah they are foreigners.
Speaker 1:The ones that are fighting. Yes, they are foreigners.
Speaker 3:The one that Rosemont mentioned and even those other two places that we went to. These are foreigners. The lady who is really resisting invitation to the ministry is a foreigner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very interesting, but I wish I could say it's surprising, it's not All right. Okay, so leaving that behind for a bit, what is your hope for the transition work, for CRC, for the TCM? Where are you headed in the next year, or two year, or five years, but also for your country?
Speaker 3:two year to five years, but also for your country. I think we have a very strong hope that it is possible that one day, sierra Leone, especially, will be an orphan-free country, as we say, or orphanage-free country. You know, because I said earlier, that since we started the work of the TCM, we have not stopped, and every year we see progress, we are moving forward, we are building connections. We are part of a very big, or very big global groups, you know, institutions that are really practicing the good things, that are really practicing the good things that are really necessary to raise children. So CRC is part of all those groups and we are learning a lot from the best people around the world. And so we know that, with the support of our government and other institutions, as we are coming together, we move forward.
Speaker 3:In the next five years we'll see a greater impact in the lives of children that we care for, you know, especially in families, instead of those who are living in institutions, and we'll see a lot of transition going on around, if not completely, but a lot must have been done you know, in five years' time. So our goal is to really see that Sierra Leone becomes a place where we don't talk about orphanages, but we talk about family support systems, and donors will also, you know, focus on supporting families in Sierra Leone instead of orphanages on supporting families in Sierra Leone instead of orphanages.
Speaker 2:So I know we are learning from the best and we are in collaboration with the best transition practitioners around the world. And with the insight we get from these transition practitioners, we are hopeful that residential care institutions in Sierra Leone will embrace family-based care programs and then we integrate all our children for the best practice of these children we are working with, so that they will thrive in their families.
Speaker 1:And what I would say to that is you are among the best practitioners and transition support in the world.
Speaker 1:You don't often get the chance to see that because the world you don't often get the chance to see that because you don't get beyond Sierra Leone.
Speaker 1:David got the chance to go to Uganda.
Speaker 1:I'm hoping there'll be more opportunities for the voices of transition practitioners like yourself that are actually doing the transition work to have more opportunity to engage in conversations with other transition experts from all over the world so that you can share best practices and knowledge, so that you can exchange ideas about what's working for you in your context, what's working for them in their context, so that transition support can grow around the world based on your sharing of what you know with people in East, even in East Africa, where we think they're a little bit ahead, but maybe there are things that they could learn from you all as well.
Speaker 1:So my hope is that there's more opportunity for your voices to be be have a bigger seat at that conversational table in the global space, in the global conversations that happen. I think for a long time those conversations have included people like me who are academic and have a lot of research knowledge, but have never actually transitioned an organization and never will myself, because I rely on you all to do that. So that's my hope. All right, we have one last question that we always ask every guest that comes on optimistic voices, and that is this, and I'm going to start with Rose first, rosamund first what keeps you optimistic or hopeful about your work in this field?
Speaker 2:a lot of insights and, with me, sharing my experience and giving out my ideas. I see organizations listening and residential care centers or residential care institutions being eager to learn to know the best practice. So if they are being eager to learn to know the best practice for these children they are working for, I'm hopeful that one day, the way in which they change and they will want to transition their model of care, and then family-based care programs, will be all of the things we'll be talking about, and then we'll help these children to grow and live in loving and happy families.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel very important, mostly when I talk about transition, because I look at the end of it and the impact it will create in society. You know for today, in most places when we go, because we maybe because of our number, because of the kind of institutions- the institution that we are working.
Speaker 3:They see us as a very small piece, you know, but I see myself as a very big, you know, impact creator, because I know what I'm doing at the end of the day is going global. It's not only in Sierra Leone. You see bigger institutions in Sierra Leone. What they do is big but, trust me, it's just within Sierra Leone. But now our work is really global. So I'm really hopeful that one day that global recognition will, you know, it will become the national, whatever recognition will become global and everybody will realize that, oh, this small piece that we used to see was a very big one. So I'm really hopeful that one day I'll just create a very big impact in society and the world at large.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to thank you for joining us. Thank you, rosamund, and thank you, david, for being here with me. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:And I want to thank you all for joining us on this episode of Optimistic Voices. We like to say that it's a big messy world out there and there is no shortage of need, but we here at Optimistic Voices believe that with radical courage and radical collaboration together we can change the world. Join us next time and learn more about how we can change the world. Join us next time and learn more about how we can change the world together.
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